By Sri Chiraan 2008/11/25
The birth of Karna was an unfortunate event. But Sympathy for Karna Stops here. Because at every stage God having helped him Karna out rightly chose his own selfish path annoying several along the way. For example:
- When Drona refused to teach him, he went to Drona's Guru Shri Parshuram to learn the astras.
- He lied to God Parshurama that He is Brahmin to learn astras. (God Knowingly teaches him all, because God knew Duryodhan would wage a war against Pandavas only on the confidence of Karna’s capability).
- But when caught Karna did not humbly accept his lie but persisted with it (Perhaps God would have forgiven him had he accepted). Hence he obtains curse that his learning will not help him in competition, all other times he would be unparalleled.
- Karna accepts friendship of Duryodhana only to oppose Arjun. (Lack of morals)
- When Father (Sun) advises him not to give kavach kundal to Indra, he disobeys Father and gives it away.
- When Mother Kunti asks him not to harm Pandavas, he displeases her saying he would kill Arjun
- When Lord Krishna offers him the entire Kingdom of the universe to join Pandavas as eldest brother in war, he rejects Lord’s suggestion and fights for Duryodhana. (Ego before the Lord)
- Was he loyal to Duryodhan? No, when Bheeshma calls him “ardharathi”, He does not enter battlefield for 10 days till Bheeshma falls. So much for a false friendship. (Given to anger)
- He was acclaimed as Daan Veer, but he had taken a vow that he would donate only till he kills Arjun, his dana was only out of ego and jealousy towards Arjun, to attain fame and not to please God or recipient .
- When Bheemasena strikes on his chariot, he hid under the chariot in fear leaving his shakti astra. He was defeated thrice by Bheemasena during Rajsuya yagna, this even when he had Kavach and Kunadala. (Was he veer).
When one annoys so many elders, and is disobedient, given to falsehood, bitten by jealousy and ego and anger, can one expect success? One becomes the architect of his own misfortunes. Karna fell due to failure of chariot, lapse of memory absence of kavach kundala and shakti of Indra.
People born under Aquarius lagna and navamsa are given to such characteristic, though they attain fame, and heroics in practical life it helps them in none, but only brings misfortunes. When both benefics and malefics aspect a particular house results are mixed in nature giving success and failure alternatively, provided both benefics and malefics are of equal strength.
Krishnarpana
Smartboy said: September 18, 2011 at 00:22
ReplyDeleteCan any wise person put some light in this controversial topic.
There is no consensus regarding the time of happening of event in Karna’s life.
(1)When did Karna donated his Kavach and Kundal?
In one book i have read that Karna had donated his kavach Kundal during 12th year of Pandavs Vanvaash and in another book Karna donated after the Virat war.
The first war seems more logical and close to reality since Karna faced his first real defeat during Virat war. And with the Kavach and Kundal even Sudarshan chakra of Lord Krishna would have ineffective and thats not my assumption thats are words Lord Krishna.
(2) Secondly in one book Karna was cursed when he was a teen and in other book Karna had been Cursed after his defeat against Arjuna during Virat war when Duryodhan forced Karna to look for more divyastras and to sharpened his skill,since Duryodhan has realised that Arjuna was not the same Arjuna of younger days. He has now raised himself to the rank of Pitamah Bhisma after acquiring Gandiv,Devine Chariot and various celestial weapons from his Father Lord Indra. So Karna went to Lord Parashuram again where he was bitten by an blood sucking insect,with kavach kundal it was impossible and When he was cursed by the Brahmin for mistakenly killing his cow ,Karna offered him several cows, land, jewelleries and servants but a teenage Karna never had that luxury only Angraj Karna had.
So second One Sounds more my logic.
If anybody has anything to say i am waiting for a positive and healthy discussion and sharing of Knowledge.
Thanks.
Chiraan said: September 18, 2011 at 20:03
Karna’s kavach kundal were taken away only after vanvas
all the curses Karna had before royal display of talent before becoming anga raaj ….
Karna was brought up by Charioteer of DHritarashtra and was very well off … the fact that his initial education was under DRONA shows he had access to royal palace ,,,,
He went to PARSHURAAM only when Drona refused to give him BRAMHASTRA ….to repeat … he could have learnt vidya under PARSHURAAM even as suta … or he could have even said he was kshatriya to PARSHURAAM … but fact he chose to say HE was BRAMHIN to PARSHURAAM is bramhins learn more astras than kshatriyas and access to various bramhastras become easy …. that makes him more stronger than ARJUN [ so thought KARNA ] … this is chhal kapat … and shastra say .. seeking vidya under chhal becomes nishphal … thats what happened with KARNA ….
After completing his education from PARSHURAAM , he gatecrashed in ROYAL CHALLENGE … this again shows his access to royal palace and influence to to enter royal arena … all these shows a rich upbringing and wealthy outlook … so giving cows jewelleries to bramhin should not come as surprise [its modern dalit viewpoint that KARNA was underprivileged and struck in poverty which MAHABHARATA negates]
After this ROYAL challenge KARNA is crowned ANGARAJ ..[why ANGA ?] suta are born to KSHATRIYA king and bramhin woman … ADHIRATH was Son of ANGRAJ …
Smartboy said: September 17, 2011 at 12:13
ReplyDeleteBy supporting karna i in no way would like to disrespect Arjuna. For me Arjuna was most luckiest living being in this world who had Lord Krishna as his guide. For me he is more luckier than even Lord Hanuman since Lord Hanuman came to help Lord Rama in several occasions but it was opposite in case of Arjuna.
But in doing so I can’t be unfair to Karna.
Why this topic is about Karna and not about Duryodhana ,Dushasan and Sakuni is itself a proove that Karna has got more sympathy and Respect rivalling that of Arjuna, Bhisma, Bhimsen etc.
The long list of post in support of Karna is itself a proof.
Whats one goal in life only the person has the right to decide it.
IF sees God in his goal.
Now we can’t be Hyprocrat here we have to maintain the same scale for everyone. By disregarding Karna we can’t ignore the deeds of Pandavas.
(1) Mr Chiraan said, Karna was evil becs he lied to his Guru Lord Parashuram. What did Yudhistir do he also lied to his Guru Dronacharya. See other miskake doesn’t another person good or evil. But we have keep the same parameter. Here Yudhisthir Goal was to upheld Dharma and Karna’s goal was to become the greatest warrior. Ultimately lie is a lie. But What Karna did was wrong yes i agreed for which he was cursed. But here his own Guru regrets cursing him. When asked for Gurudakshina he told Karna the pleasure of teaching you is My Gurudakshina . He also gave him Bhargavastra and Vijay Dhanush which he himself didn’t share with Bhisma and Dronacharya. If Karna was evil Lord wouldn’t have done that.
(2) Respecting vow ,During exhibition when Karna was made the King of Anga ,he pledge that he will with Duryodhan till his last breath. Similarly,
Arjuna has also Pledge that when anyone disrespect His Gandiva he will definately kill the person and thats why he went to Killed Yuddhistir. Respecting vow. Maintain the same standard.
(3)Yes he definately did a immoral act of calling a woman whore. But he himself regrets before Lord Krishna that he can’t show his face before Draupadi for what he has done. Feeling of Guilt ,does evil mind have such guilt. Did Raavan,Hiranyaksh had such feeling.
(4) when Kunti approached Karna. He told her other than Arjun he won’t killed any Pandavas. Who don’t have depth of Knowledge will tell that He was jealous of Arjuna. But the same Karna told Lord Krishna that 1000 Karna couldn’t harm Arjun when protected by you.
(5) He rejected the offer of king of worlds . For him duty of repaying the debts of Duryodhan was more important. He didn’t killed the killers of his sons to honour the pledge given to his mother. EVIL Mind.
(6) Lastly, his last rites were done by Lord Krishna and said in his honour there have been number of great warriors that have born and will do but Soul like Karna was rare. Now asked The Lord why he did that in support of Evil mind like Karna.
Chiraan said: September 17, 2011 at 21:15
DeleteShallow statements
1. Arjun is luckier than HANUMAN
Arjun is mere human compared to superhuman HANUMAN. Superhuman are always blessed by HARI [intrinsically], hence misery never touches HANUMAN. On the contrary Arjun the mere mortal is engulfed in misery [VISHAAD as described in Bhagavadgeeta] so requires external divine help to resolve his plight that makes ARJUN less fortunate than HANUMAN.
1a. Since Lord Hanuman came to help Lord Rama in several occasions but it was opposite in case of Arjuna.
HANUMAN did service to his master [not help] RAAM didn’t need help of monkeys to KILL RAVANA - evident in VISHWAROOP darshan of RAAMA. In the words of HANUMAN himself, any monkey RAAM blessed with his palm on the monkey’s head, would have got this task accomplished. Oh, RAAMA you chose me it’s my good fortune.
Mortals need help not RAAMA, GOD is immensely DAYALU who always helps devotees. ARJUN a great devotee, devotion brings all kinds of fortune.
2. I can’t be unfair to Karna.
To be fair or unfair, one must be qualified, superficial logic without analysis and just to even out events and emotions is not justice or being fair, [then you can establish your own tughlaqabaad]
3. Here Yudhisthir goal was to upheld Dharma and Karna’s goal was to become the greatest warrior. Ultimately lie is a lie. But What Karna did was wrong yes I agreed for which he was cursed. But here his own Guru regrets cursing him.
Ans. lie is a lie — it’s not an elite statement, [there’s circumstances in dharmashastra where a lie becomes sin and virtue in various circumstances, so a lie is legitimate to save honour, life and dharma] so a lie is not just a lie, lie of KARNA is crime [trying to fool GOD seems foolish and criminal in thinking that I can be a better intelligent than GOD in deceiving him, it’s heinous]
Lie of YUDHISHTHIR is in accordance with dharma as GOD asks him to lie. What GOD says is DHARMA.
Chiraan said: September 17, 2011 at 21:15
Delete3a. The lie to GOD cannot be compared to lie to a mortal drone.
3b. His own guru regrets [height of your shallow argument] HOW CAN GOD HAVE REGRET, you mean to say GOD the creator of entire universe, one who can within minutes destroy entire creation and easily sustain it. It requires mammoth planning and premeditated well-rehearsed efforts for anyone to create such creations, [such people cannot talk or do things in haste to regret later. GOD does this in effortless manner it shows HE is perfect, how can he regret a curse].
3c He also gave him Bhargavastra and Vijay Dhanush which he himself didn’t share with Bhisma and Dronacharya
He offered them to BHEESHMA and DRONA too, but they refused and sought only his blessings. [read MAHABHARATA] because they served HIM with devotion as GURU, KARNA served only for astras and at the first instance grabbed it.
4. Arjuna has also Pledge that when anyone disrespect His Gandiva he will kill the person and that's why he went to Killed Yuddhistir. Respecting vow. Maintain the same standard.
Ans, his argument is negative to your logic you are accepting defect. ARJUN did not Kill Yudhisthir at the behest of KRISHNA, even though he had taken VOW. KARNA did go ahead with DURYODHAN despite Instructions from KRISHNA, where is the standard its opposite behaviour - shallow superficial argument
5.Who don’t have depth of Knowledge will tell that He was jealous of Arjuna. But the same Karna told Lord Krishna that 1000 Karna couldn’t harm Arjun when protected by you.
ans. I don't know what is logic here. Jealousy creeps when one fails, here KARNA knew even 1000 karnas cannot compete with ARJUN, that's precisely jealousy, [those confident of winning fight don't exhibit jealousy and pass personal remarks on wife children kingdom etc, the very fact KARNA indulged in these shows’ jealousy], you have reiterated it.
What is jealousy? not accepting superiority of the superior, attributing success of champion to some irate factors, fantasising victory somehow at least once, making opponent disadvantageous or when he is not to full potential, cause inability [like dyut].
5. For him duty of repaying the debts of Duryodhan was more important. He didn’t kill the killers of his sons to honour the pledge given to his mother.
Repaying debts of evil is important, isn't it evil? [what logic this justifies?] it’s like saying I’m indebted to a rapist; hence I would not object to his immoral act against women and I will have to unwillingly support his rape ..even if GOD says stop I wont [And I am daanveer you see] for those who do not know , Duryodhan is punished for molesting a gandharva kanya in inebriated condition along with KARNA ..
Shallow statement rather hypocritic, [I’m sure if girl concerned is your kith & kin, you would say hell with you KARNA, it’s not dharma] just because talk of dharma adharma is going on people seems unattached to adharma, as it has not happened to them, place yourselve in kingdom of duryodhan. You will feel the heat and then role of ARJUN will become clear what a hero HE was. MAHABHARAT is practical.
He couldn't kill killers of his sons [He loses to BHEEMSEN 21 times, what a poor KARNA can do? but to honour his pledge]
6. Last rites were done by KRISHNA yes, as a dead man the runanubandha was over, and one speaks always good of MAN in his death ceremony …that is lesson.
Praveen said: August 21, 2010 at 17:31
ReplyDelete“Only for this boon and not that BALI was great devotee qualified him to stay alive even after attempting to achieve something which one is not eligible for !
Of course Lord Vishnu promised Prahlad not to kill anyone in his clan. But Bali was a great devotee of Lord Vishnu. He acquired the sentiments of Hari Bhakti from his grandfather Prahlad. The Hari Nama Mala Strotra has been composed by Bali Maharaj.
http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Hari_Nama_Mala_Stotram
A non devotee cannot compose verses in praise of God. Valmiki and Tulsidasa composed Ramayana and Ram Charitmanas in devotion to Lord Rama. Even Ravana though a Vishnu Dweshi composed Shiv Tandava Strotram as he was a staunch devotee of Lord Shiva. Every body has the right of devotion to God. Being born in deva or asura yonis doesn’t matter here. Example of Bali and Prahlada illustrates this.
Bali is counted among principal devotees of Supreme lord vishnu like Narada, Bhishma, Vyas, Yudhisthira, Vibhishana, Arjuna and Prahlada. He was eligible for Indra Padvi as he ruled righteously. Impressed by his righteous rule Goddess Laxmi herself approached Bali and offered her blessings to him. The asuras under Bali followed path of truth so they along with Bali grew prosperous by blessings of Laxmi devi as she had now come to kingdom of Bali. The devas became devoid of splendor. They went to Brahma and asked for a solution. Brahma told that he couldn’t do anything as Bali ruled righteously. Then devas went to Vishnu for help during this time Aditi also was doing penance to appease Lord Vishnu. Vishnu convinced the devas and aditi that he will take back the sovergienity of three worlds from Bali and give it back to Indra in Vamana Avatara. Of course he had promised Aditi to protect his children the devas but only when they are on right path not always. When ever Indra commits any error his throne becomes insecure and some asra attacks and humiliates him in battle. Indra gets relief after he asks forgiveness from Brahma and seeking shelter of Vishnu. Vishnu helped Indra because according to the rule of creation Brahma had destined devas to rule heavens. But he himself blessed him to get Indra Padvi in next birth during savarni manvantar. Because he wanted to fulfil the imcomplete desire of his devotee Bali. Sri lord vishnu kept a balance between rights of devas and keeping mercy on Bali. All puranas including shrimad bhagwat recite the greatness and generosity of Bali.
NO , a VISHNU DWESHI [ or abhakta non devotee ] is not eligible for a even one single grain or drop of water , dana to such a man yields many years of hell . [ krishnamrut maharnava says it clearly ]
Praveen said: August 21, 2010 at 17:31
ReplyDeleteKingdom, wealth, land, cattle, gems, gold ,silver, milk, ghee, curd and delicious fruits cannot be donated to everybody except learned and virtuous brahmins (not to brahmins who do religious ceremonies for greed of wealth). Even books of great knowledge, valuable cushions, houses, elephants, horses and chariots and articles of luxuries should be donated to brahmins. They should not be donated to shudras. But food and water are two principal substances on which all four varnas subsist. So there is no harm in giving food and water to anybody including brahmins. This is called jeeva seva because every jeeva is a subtle portion of supreme lord. In summer season some persons install water pots and taps in the city without charging any cost. They don’t say vishnu dweshis cannot drink water from this pot. Because hunger and thirst is something that is common in mortals, animals, birds, insects, reptiles and even devas. Thats why devas are fed with yagya ahutis poured in Agni. Agni is the mouth piece of devas through which devas are fed. Of course when food is donated to devotee of Lord Hari and Lord Shiva more virtue accrues. Even Jarasandha used to serve Brahmins with great devotion after worshipping shiva still he was a Vishnu dweshi.
“SAI is not representative of LORD . one who preaches equality of deities is daitya himself . It is form of a hate [ nava vidh dwesha ] hate towards bramhins is stepping stone towards vishnudwesha .”
Sai is a representative of God, the best thing is no one knew whether he is a hindu or muslim, he was not born he appeared at shirdi as a small boy. He returned back to shirdi in his youth. Here equality of dieties is not discussed. But of course who differentiates between Lod Hari and Lord Shiva definitely goes to hell. Lord Shiva gives sakapta kripa to those who worship him but hate vishnu. (means he does keep his mercy on them permanently. Ravana worshipped Shiva but hated Vishnu so Shiva didn’t help him during war with Rama but instead devasted Lanka in the form of Shri Hanuman. Similarily those vishnu worshippers who criticize or hate lord shiva never attain full devotion of lord hari they go to hell because Shiva is the diety of Lord Vishnu and Lord Vishnu is the diety of shiva, These two respect and worship each other. But some devotees of these two are foolish who quarrel among themselves on the issue who is the best. Devotion to one diety is good but at the same time criticising the other is a sin. Daityas are those who worship shiva and hate vishnu. Those who worship vishnu but show disrespect to Lord shiva are not true devotees of Hari. Lord Rama gets appeased from him who worships lord shiva for this reason Shri Rama praised even Ravana in this point. Similarily who chants the name of Lord Ram attracts the mercy of Lord Shiva. With diffrentiating among forms in God one only gets confused . By respecting all gods one appeases lord vishnu as all gods are his partial portions. Lord Ganesh has been born from the ansh of Lord Krishna residing in Goloka and Lord Subramania has been born from the portion of four armed lord Narayana.
Praveen said: August 21, 2010 at 17:31
ReplyDelete“BUT he knew ASHWATHTHAMA was superior because he was bramhin and ARJUN acknowledged it whole world acknowledged it .”
Of course Ashwatthama was superior to Arjuna. But not because of his Brahminhood. Because Ashwatthama had the ansh of Rudra. Rudra is great in prowess and no one can face him except Narayana or one who is protected by Narayana. Brahmins have the right to curse but due to act of murdering children of Pandavas krishna cursed Ashwathama to wander as a leper till the end of creation. This proves that laws of Karma is equal for all according to divine law. Of course Brahmins are prohibited to be slain in scriptures but Yama has ordained punishment even for them if they abandon duties prescribed to their class and follow falsehood. Those brahmins who are self restraint by nature who are compassionate to all , who are free from jealousy, who don’t hanker for earning wealth are like Gods on earth. We called them Bhudevta. Those who are opposite to these qualities lose their Brahminhood even after being born in a brahmin family. Brahmteja comes from austerities not by simply being from a Brahmin family. Ashwatthama was superior to Arjuna due to his Brahma teja done from austerities. But after murdering children of Pandavas that Brahmteja was lost. Thats why lord krishna exercised his power to curse him. One who injures a truthful and virtous brahmin is a daitya and vishnu dweshi. The age before Kaliyuga had virtous Brahmins now days you can see many brahmins who eat meat, who make worship in the house of wretched persons, who have attachment for wealth and money, who don’t do gayatri, who even drink wine. Can devotion to these type of Brahmins lead to devotion towards Vishnu absolutely not.!
Brahminhood is not attained by just by birth it is attained by tapasya thats why Vishwamitra attained Brahminhood by doing tapasya. Before that he was a Kshatriya king known as Vishwarath. By austerities first he became rajrishi then further he became brahmrishi.
“DRONA refused because he was not royal and hence not eligible for astras . but taught him as a normal student . KARNA wanted to excel ARJUN .”
Praveen said: August 21, 2010 at 17:31
ReplyDeleteThe way of Karna to get astras was indeed wrong I accept that but he was royal. Being the son God and son of Pritha the daughter of Kuntibhoja how can one not be royal. If Karna had not been royal then Krishna won’t have acknowledged to him being the elder brother of Pandavas, he won’t have offered Karna the kingdom. Karna was denied of astras through curse because Parashurama wanted to assure the victory of Truth (Pandavas). Parashurama was God he knew karna was royal so he gave him astras but he also knew he is going to side with evil Duryodhana so he cursed him. But he didn’t curse Karna to suffer disgrace he blessed him to earn fame. He said ” On the earth no Kshtariya will be equal to thee” I simply believe one reason for Karna’s frequent defeat he didn’t have full blessings of his Guru so he was a great but incomplete warrior. On the other hand Arjuna had blessings of Drona who had got cut the thumb of Eklavya because the latter had excelled Arjuna in archery. I don’t hesitate to accept the faults of Karna but there were others also who had committed faults so only one character cannot be simply called evil. Karna never hankered for earning wealth or kingdom. He wanted recognition as a warrior because he had kshatriya blood and prowess of Sun God. Sun is a Kshtriya planet by nature in astrology. So Karna is a pure Kshtriya being born to sun and Kunti devi. He cannot be called as a suta’s son but not a suta because he never accepted to drive the chariot. Adhiratha had presented a chariot to Karna on his birthday to learn driving as a profession but Karna expressed his desire to learn advanced weaponry and went to Parashurama
Even Bhishma acknowledges the prowess of Karna when he mets him on his bed of arrows. Bhishma is a Bhagwat he won’t utter falsehood or flattery. He considered Karna to be equal to Arjuna and Krishna in archery. Bhishma, Vidura , Vyas and Krishna knew who Karna was from the beginning. They were told about his real parenthood by Narada. All negative events in Karn’s life was organised by destiny so that bad people like Duryodhana may not get full advantage from Karna. Or else the same Karna did digvijaya for Hastinapura and conquered east, west, south and north single handedly. I know well good company should be cultivated so the entire world calls Karna as a doomed hero or an unfortunate hero but not a villain.
Radhe Krishna!
Chiraan said: August 22, 2010 at 02:18
ReplyDeleteResponse to Praveen
Three points have come to light in this post .
1. The feeling that though BALI is eligible for post of INDRA and LORD unwittingly took a avatar to deprive him of the post . [ I mean why should LORD take avatar to stop BALI from being INDRA .] does avatar come so mundanely ., there has to be very serious reason for LORD himself to come down to stop a YAGNYA . [ A YAGNYA IS SERIOUS AFFAIR AND PIOUS ONE HARMLESS ] why should LORD take avatar to stop it ?
This very fact shows there is high importance attached to BALI”S ineligibility . whereas PRAHALAD Himself ruled INDRALOKA for many years . here LORD NEVER interfered . BUT INDRA took away his kingdom by asking a boon from PRAHALAAD . He asked PRbut AHALAD to offer him his SHEEL [ quality ] as sheel left him so also SHREE left him and INDRA PADVI . see even PRAHLAAD was not eligible for INDRA post ,. so he lost it . PRAHALAAD had taken three worlds on account of presence of SHREE in him .
NOW BALI wanted to BECOME INDRA he just did not want three worlds . this is undeserving . WHILE THRONE OF INDRA is unstable but INDRA POST [ is divine and eternal ] . one must not desire undeserving things . LIKE SHAMBHOOK wanting PARVATIPATITVA .
NAHUSH also got INDRA THRONE but as he desired SHACHI he was vanquished .
BALI is VISHNU BHAKTA , so also is MANDHAT . so also is GAUTAM they all lost excess punya when they desired out of their bounds and were subject to misery .
2. EQUATING HARI AND HARA .
DeleteThis is vishnu dwesha . read navavidh dwesha in BHAGAVAT , NO one is equal to HARI .
Rudra is not GOD . Neither ASHWATHTHAMA . hewas always vanquished by BHEEMSEN in war . it was FINALLY mani was also cut by BHEEMA . ASHWATHTHAMA fails to withdraw bramhastra this is defect which cannot be attributed to GOD . if rudra were GOD.
Bheema defeats thrice rudra in rajsuya , BHEEMASEN overtakes all the boons of SHIVA making him GREATER THAN SHIVA .
HANUMAN is not RUDRAVATAR , HANUMAN IS VAYU AVATAR . TAMAS PURANAS do not give right knowledge . nowhere in BHAGAVAT HARI IS equated with HARA , so
SAI who equates every for deity with LORD is VISHNU DWESHI ,
VISHNU DWESHI is not eligible for even a drop of water . there are puranic quotes this extent .
KARNA was SUTA by sanskaara , when upanayana is done if it is done of SUTA then one becomes SUTA . now whether he drove chariot or not is immaterial he had a sanskaara of SUTA . so also KRISHNA though born to NANDA [ KSHATRIYA father and VAISHYA mother , a GOPA ] care was taken to give him and BALARAMA sanskara of KSHATRIYA by rishis at the behest of VASUDEV.
so sanskaara [ upanayana , janevu sanskaara ] is very important. It determines caste . VISHWAMITRA became a bramhin in a time equivalent to another lifetime, he could have very well left his body and got bramhin birth, so trying for upgrade is waste of time, when man of grit like VISHWAMITRA could not achieve it easily in a single lifetime commoners should forget it . there is no lesson to learn here than to leave such aspirations . MIND all VISHWAMITRA gets bramharishi only after he concedes defeat to VASHISHTHA.
3. LORD curses kARNA to ensure defeat of Duryodhana .
this is childish statement , it was BHEEMSEN who vanquished entire KAURAVA ARMY single handed, he did not require an ARMY to go about it , all the kAURAVAS with ELEVEN AKSHOUHINI and BHEEMSEN alone one side still PANDAVAS would have won the war ,
others were merely paying lip service.
ARJUN and KARNA are never main characters of MAHABHARATA. It was a war between DURYODHAN AND BHEEMSEN
others were merely sorting out allegiance,
THIS IS moral of MAHABHARATA.
LORD KRISHNA IS SUPREME HARI SARVOTTAMA, BHEEMSEN IS Jeevottama.
LORD always sides with SATVIKAS [PANDAVAS]. Tamasiks [KAURAVAS, jarasandha] do have blessings of RUDRA [DURVASA and ASHWATHTHAMA] but to no avail .
RAJASIKs [KARNA ETC] take sides of the powerful [whoever is powerful at the time] when PANDAVAS might increases he worships KRISHNA , when they are weak sides with DUryodhan and goes against LORD and his counsel as well. At times in influence they commit sins heinous as disrobing [abetting] etc . these have no mind of their own but situationally change and justify their position through irrational logic . They sometimes feel they themselves are invincible but with a hunkara if evil they roll their tails [ KARNA NEVER DARED talk against DURYODHAN or even dream of having a fight with him but could muster strength to decieve LORD himself . his tail never wagged before duryodhan because he knew he would throw him out like a waste paper . HE had selfish interest there . BUT To learn astras selfish interest he dared commit sin towards a teacher and LORD himself .
With MOTHER KUNTI he could have said I WOULD KILL YUDHISTHIR and leave all the brothers , because by killing YUDHISTHIR He could have won the war and completed his duty towards friend ., but his aim was not friendship his aim was KILLING ARJUN to prove himself great .
HE WAS out and out selfish man a mixed soul . INFERIOR to ARJUN.
HARI SARVOTTAM.
Chiraan said: August 23, 2010 at 08:21
DeleteMahabharath is battle of senses. When analysing a character, what is important is to understand the characters’ collective thought process [notwithstanding the soul representing the character may be undergoing prarabdha which is not changeable , it can be good or bad]
All the people siding with duryodhan represents don'ts. All the people siding with Pandavas repesents do’s.
Even on Pandavas when it comes to analysis towards Moksha even minutest defects of each character is worth analysing as don'ts.
Like Yudhisthir’s extreme attachment to Dharma makes him a constant target of Krishna’ ire > But that does not mean that one must not be attached to DHarma or leave dharma all together. But in fact fine line of dharma and adharma becomes finer when analysing. [At the same time such events don't show Yudhisthir in poor light because even though He knows right and wrong, he has to undergo prarabdha, but that does not justify his action when analysing the character Yudhisthir]
So essentially a comment on Yudhisthir does not mean a remark on understanding of Lord YAMA [whose incarnation Yudhisthir is]
So also it extends to KARNA , Karna as a soul may be undergoing Prarabdha so also DRONA and BHEESHMA, but they all stand negated as they align Duryodhana. The qualities they represent attracts failures and is to be overcome when applying in real world.
Like KARNA representing jealousy. Every discussion in KARNA shows how difficult it is to overcome this quality how it tries to supersede real zeal to learn [ ARJUN ] Karna’s zeal is to earn fame Arjun’s zeal was to learn KNOWLEDGE itself . Eklavyas’ zeal was to develop anti social missiles everybody required common teacher DRONA .
Bheeshma Drona as senses are always drawn to side with ego lust and greed [ They just cannot get away from it till end ] . There is no practical way to overcome to kill its association with EVIL . ONly SHRAVAN manan DHYAN [ ARJUN ] can overcome it that too by yukti.
Jealosy sense of spardha are very hard to beat, they challenge very supremacy of learnings [ ARJUN ] in gaining the LORD. It sometimes abandons LORD himself in an ecstasy to lead a evil samsara [DURYODHAN ] > Rajas souls like being in samsara, they feel samsara is all what is there in world , Vairagya is foolish peoples’ discourses. Hence when LORD himself offers MOKSHA samrajya [KINGDOM] but with a condition to side [accept] the friendship /company of Knowledge vairagya in shashtra dharma neeti suneeti [PANDAVAS], ANURAAGA irshya [KARNA] rejects it in favour of SAMSAARA giving stupid reasons of bondage.
Praveen said: August 21, 2010 at 03:35
ReplyDelete“BALI was vanquished by LORD, as he is not eligible for INDRA [ indra padvi is different from SWARGADHIPATYA ]”
Lord Vishnu would have defeated Bali even in a battle but he didn’t do so. Because Bali was generous and a devotee of the lord. And Lord Vishnu asked charity from Bali to show the greatness of Bali to Indra and the whole world. Please read Bhagwat Puran of Gita Press Gorakhpur. Bali will be the future Indra. What is the difference between Swargadipati and Indra?
“instead of donating to bramhins and temples people prefer donating to illicit borns”
I am not against giving charity to temples and Brahmins. But how can you say that giving donations to orphanages is not proper. In scriptures charity of food, cloth and water is not restricted upto Brahmins . They can be given even to shudras, ordinary beggars and poor orphan people. And still one earns virtue. Charity given to Brahmins is not done for humanity it is done due to the motive of earning merits and charity done to poor and orphan persons is done for human service. Though some people do it for publicity today. Even many people give charity to temples and Brahmins for publicity. Human service is the greatest service to God. In this Kalyuga Shirdi Sai Baba was a great representative of God and many people have seen him. His teachings were not restricted just to serve Brahmins or temples. He taught to serve all humanity. And I know very well how a Brahmin called Kulkarni was jealous of him. Don’t you see asura tatwa in that Brahmin. He was jealous of Sai Baba. He was bitten by a snake and got back life after getting blessings from Sai Baba. In Devi Bhagwat Puran Yama says to Savitri, food and water can be given to a person of any caste. But when it is given to a Brahmin the donator gets place in heaven and when it is given to persons of any other caste one gets place in Shiva Loka.
“One who does ashwamedha 100 times gets the post of IndRA , but getting a good pundit to get it done is not enough, ashwamedha yagnya means winning entire earth 100 times”
That means Bali had conquered the earth 100 times he had successfully completed 99 ashwamed yagyas. When he was doing the last one Lord Vishnu came and asked for charity. This shows that Bali was eligible for the post of Indra. Moreover in Bali;s rule the people were happy and prosperous. Please study all major Purans they will give you positive feedback about Bali’s rule.
“When Drona refused to teach him , he went to Drona ‘s Guru Shri Parshuram to learn the astras".
He lied to God Parshurama that He is Bramhin to learn astras.(God Knowingly teaches him all , because God knew Duryodhan would wage a war against Pandavas only on the confidence of Karna’s capability.) But when caught Karna did not humbly accepted his lie but persisted with it( Perhaps God would have forgiven him ,had he accepted) Hence he obtains curse that his learning will not help him in competition , all other times He would be unparalleled.
"Karna accepts Friendship of Duryodhana only to oppose Arjun”
Karna spoke a lie assuming that Parashurama taught to Brahmins only case of Bhisma is an exception he was the son of Goddess Ganga. Thinking Parashuram will also reject him like Drona Karna spoke a lie. Of course Karna was wrong at this point. But Parashurama cursed him thinking him to be a kshtriya and Karna was not aware of his real parentage. Karna accepts his mistake and tells that he is a Suta. Parashurama didn’t curse Karna for his lie because being a god he knew the reason for Karna speaking lie. A guru is like a father a guru cannot curse his disciple. Even Indra had shown disrespect to his Guru Brihaspati but the latter didn’t curse him, but left Indra’s court in despair. Parshuram knew that Karna was going to side with Duryodhan the evil man and can prove a great obstacle to Pandavas if not cursed so he cursed Karna. But recognizing Karna’s seva bhava Parashurama gave the divine Vijay bow to him. Gandiva is for Arjuna and Vijaya is for Karna.
Chiraan said: August 21, 2010 at 11:12
DeletePraveen says “but he didn’t do so. Because Bali was generous and a devotee of the lord. ”
Ans : This statement is wrong , While Lord killed everyone who aspired for the post of INDRA because Lord has given promise to Indra that his post will be protected. But incase of BALI , Lord has also given Promise to PRAHALAD that henceforth he would not kill any of the progeny of PRAHALAD even though they act against him [And PRAHALAD also asks for a boon that his progeny should not cause any harm or insult to bramhins]. Only for this boon and not that BALI was great devotee qualified him to stay alive even after attempting to achieve something which one is not eligible for !
Even Mandath rishi wanted to become Vashishtha he was vanquished through death. So one must not aspire the post for which one is not eligible.
Bali tried 99 times and 100th time he faced failure [although through dana neeti]. Remember BALI failed 100th time. His yaga was not complete. LORD affectionately accepted his head. technically His head was not any different from three worlds.
Now Swargadhipatya is throne of INDRA . sitting on it you can rule the three world bhur bhuva swah .
But Mansa tatva adhipatya is true INDRA padvi, it is acquired by a body given during creation of taijas vaikarik ahankara.
Finally why did LORD take Vaman avatara to save INDRA post. Otherwise Bali should have been allowed to complete yagnya and have the seat. Many a rakshas have taken the seat as it was allowed so also bali should have been allowed, the fact is it is not allowed. One must not aspire the post for which one is not eligible, hierarchy is strict
And it is LORD who takes care of it. Bhagavat is testimony to it. [that is why geeta says no desires]
Chiraan said: August 21, 2010 at 11:32
DeleteYour second point, everybody is eligible of food water etc .
Ans: NO, a VISHNU DWESHI [or abhakta non devotee] is not eligible for a even one single grain or drop of water, dana to such a man yields many years of hell. [ krishnamrut maharnava says it clearly]
SAI is not representative of LORD. One who preaches equality of deities is daitya himself. It is form of a hate [nava vidh dwesha] hate towards bramhins is stepping stone towards vishnudwesha.
Chiraan said: August 21, 2010 at 11:39
DeleteYour third point :
Karna lied to PARSHURAMA only to gain BRAMHASTRA, as ARJUN would have it and without it he would not be considered superior to ARJUN. NOW why BHEESHMA is exception, PARSHURAAM taught to a kshatriya is evident, so KARNA could have told him as KSHATRIYA [he was indeed KSHATRIYA by birth] that would have saved him the curse. BUT he knew ASHWATHTHAMA was superior because he was bramhin and ARJUN acknowledged it whole world acknowledged it . so he wanted to know astras which bramhins knew more than kshatriyas.
KArna’s malefic intentions are clear and curse is deserving.
Parshuraam cursed him not for being KShatriya but for lying [guruvanchana] read mahabharata carefully, callous statements makes bad debate.
DRONA refused because he was not royal and hence not eligible for astras. But taught him as a normal student. KARNA wanted to excel ARJUN. Again a case of desiring what you are not eligible for, aka bali. LORD vanquishes. Otherwise why did LORD take avatara of VAMANA.
Praveen said: August 20, 2010 at 18:21
ReplyDelete“Prahlad and bali are bramhins by birth . so it was a high birth . any illicit birth is always demonic in nature . thus it is deplored . You must know the theory of karma as told by yama to understand it , As budha is not demonic in nature , itself shows it is not illicit birth . [ there is philosophy to be understood here ] .EVERYBODY makes mistakes including Yudhishthir due to lesser knowledge of LORD . thus subtle mistakes are pointed out . He was not human to make human like errors as pointed by you . similarly Devatas are not humanlike to make errors out of lust . so one must delve deep into the characters . But where there is demon [ tamoprachur Vishnudweshi ] there is evil and it is result of defects in birth , like KAMSA was also born to other than the husband of his mother who came in guise of her husband . look Kamsa was vishnudweshi”
Mr. Chiraan, criticizing any character in hindu religion is not my Dharma. I know that Bali and Prahlad are Brahmins by birth as asuras also belong to the clan of Rishi Kashyap. Even devtas are Brahmins because they are sons of Kashyap. Faults like greed, lust, anger and jealousy are prevalant in mortals, devas and asuras. Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu are exceptions to this. Please study the story of birth of Jalandhar you will come to know that pride etc can enter in minds of devtas also. But they are soft hearted so they accept their mistakes and take refuge of God. So you say one who has defects in his birth is a Vishnu Dweshi. Example of Kansa is ok but many persons like Hirankashyap, Ravana and Shishupal were also Vishnu Dweshi, even Banasura the son of Bali was Vishnu Dweshi at the beginning so is there any defect in their birth. They all were of renowned births Ravana was the son of Vishrava muni. Hiranyakasyap was the son of Kashyap rishi. Sishupala was born in the royal line of Chedis. If you say this then even Karna will also become a Vishnu Dweshi and even the Pandavas will come under the class of Vishnu Dweshis because they were not the biological sons of their father Pandu. Even Duryodhana was of high birth he was not born of defective birth still he became a vishnu dweshi. After birth if a child doesn’t grasp good things he becomes wicked even if he is born in a high family.
I know the value of yagyas and charity a lot of wealth is required to carry a vedic yagya. But vedic rituals are not bigger than devotion to Lord Hari. In this Kaliyuga just by chanting the name of Ram, Krishna and Hari on auspicious days one gets the fruits of vraths and visiting places of pilgrimages and even doing yagyas. The best thing is by chanting the name of God sincerely one attains moksha in this Kalyuga. In front of moksha everything is small. Those who are devoted to God for them Posts of Indra and Varuna and Kuber is not big as they know well that these digpals are themselves submissive and under the rule of Vishnu. By doing govardhan lila Lord Krishna had curbed the pride of Indra and proved that Devtas are not independent or supremely powerful entities. Again Lord Krishna had snatched the Parijat tree from Indra dev to curb his pride and sense of attachment to luxury. My dear friend no one is superior to Lord Hari.
Radhe Krishna!
Chiraan said:August 20, 2010 at 18:48
DeleteYour posts are not driving any point, The Indra has no defects, just like ARJUN his son had no defects, your distraught ideology is going places in showing only those incidents where devatas seemingly look like having done mistakes, but these are not sins committed by them they never suffered owing to it nor did they lose any of their divinity.
If you are suggesting that INDRA etc were mere mortals and had no greater purpose in life [the purpose which a mortal half knowledge person like could have grasped so easily but Indra could not]. They had no aspiration for MOKSHA [as if they did not know moksha is more important than swarga adhipatya] then this statement or thought seems to be farfetched. INDRA is most wise being in three worlds.
His opposition to LORD Krishna was to ratify Lord as supreme. Which is immediately known by aftermath of the incidents. But BALI was vanquished by LORD, as he is not eligible for INDRA [Indra padvi is different from SWARGADHIPATYA] in coming manavantara BALI gets SWARGADHIPATYA and not INDRA PADVI per se.
There is depth to puranic lores which cannot be known by mere English translations .
The concept of yaga and its application is given to nullify your point that anyone can become Indra BY GETTING A GOOD PUNDIT [SUCH A BELITTEELING OF Indra padvi IS EVIDENT BY half KNOWLEDGE]. Instead of acknowledging the point, you have moved to concept of you yagya being lesser than MOKSHA etc, where is the debate my dear friend . are you trying to debate a point or want to just exhibit that i know this story and that story etc.
Our attempt in bringing KARNA as inferior is evident all through but at the same time we also extoll BHEEMSEN As highest, in the process every other character and its defect shows up. Not withstanding KARNA remains inferior, the stories of other misdemeanours of devatas are justifiable. If a debate is called for, it should be taken up. BUT enumerating non existing defects of DEVATAS does not justify KARNA being not evil.
Praveen said: August 20, 2010 at 15:03
ReplyDelete“Yudhishthir stuck with pride about his celestial climb , went onto enumerate defects of HIS brothers as they fell . Infact the fall of PANDAVAS was in sequence of their superiority . SAHADEV NAKUL and THEN ARJUN AND DRAUPADI [ superior to ARJUN] . and then BHEEMA . ALL the while BHEEMASEN was reminding YUDHISHTHIR of leaving attachment to human body and enter heavens . BUT Yudhishthir never had intention to leave his body owing to attachment . His attachement led to make false comments on NAKUL SAHADEV .”
Its great to meet you all after so many days! I am really amused at the statement that you have given all about Yudhisthira. I am never against the Pandavas I just was saying to accuse any character of a religious epic is not proper. Because all good and bad people in any religious epic are a part of God’s play or lila. My dear friend first you were criticizing Karna now you are criticizing Yudhisthira that he had attachments to his physical body and he was jealous of Draupadi being with Bhima in the heaven. Yudhisthira was very honest, sincere, compassionate and free from ego. He did only two irrelevant things in life first he went on playing at dice even after he had lost all kingdom and wealth. Second he spoke a lie in the garb of a truth to stop Drona in the war. The first mistake is a human error anybody can make it and the second was done due to situation and on insistence of Lord Krishna. So he cannot be blamed for it or we can say it was a yukti not an error. And you are saying that Yama didn’t give death to Yudhisthira death because he was his son. By saying such childish statements you yourself are defying the sense of duty seen in devtas. Yama is never partial to anyone on basis of relationships. If it had been so then Sun God would have also actively helped by taking the side of Kauravas as his son Karna was fighting for them. Laws of Karma are equal for every body whether they are devtas, asuras, their sons & grandsons etc. Yudhisthira was angry in heaven because he saw Duryodhana being served with honour and found his brothers and wife tortured in hell though for some minutes. Actually the Gods were testing Yudhisthira whether he loved his brothers even after death of course he loved all of them. He told the Gods that if his brothers are staying in hell he would also remain there with them. He won’t enjoy heaven without them. Here brothers of Yudhisthira include Karna, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadeva. You yourself are criticizing the Pandavas and Gods to justify your statement. One more thing after the war the Kauravas and Pandavas made friendship with each other when Vyas called the souls of all deceased warriors one night near Ganga. All warriors including Bhishma, Drona, Karna, Kauravas and many others became alive for one night through tapo bal of Vyas. The Pandavas made friendship with Karna and Kauravas and they accepted it. Please read Putra Darshan Parva of MB. The war was just a way to reduce the burden of armies of demonic kings and nothing. It was a play devised by Lord Krishna.
Praveen said: August 20, 2010 at 15:03
ReplyDelete“if act of MOON was a sin in adhyatmik terms than BUDHA SHOULD BE most unfortunate and rejected child”
So you mean to say that every child born through illicit relations is sinful and unfortunate by nature that’s why you keep on blaming Karna. This statement sounds like a blow to entire humanity. In India many children are in orphanages and many of them may have been born of premarital relations so you mean to say all of them will be wicked sinful and unfortunate due to that. If that is so then are Kauravas illicit children as too they were wicked by nature? Ans what about the Pandavas as they are not legal children of Pandu? God knows that I didn’t criticize any devtas. I am saying no one is perfect in this universe having humans, devtas, asuras, gandharvas and other creatures. Everybody makes errors and they pay for it according to their measure. It was the same for Karna, I am not saying that the status of Indra and Moon has fallen due to errors made by them . But they too payed for it . Law of Karma is equal for devtas , asuras and mortals. Off course Indra didn’t get destroyed by Gautam rishi but he was cursed to lose his testacles and had to attach the testacles of a goat to regain his manhood. Moon didn’t get destroyed but he got a black spot on his body after courting with his guru’s wife. But they accepted their mistakes. Similarly for Karna he had accepted his errors before Krishna when he was offered friendship and kingdom by the latter. Birth of Budha is a fortunate event through a forbidden act. Similarily birth of Danveer like Karna was the result of a childish act of Kunti Devi of testing a powerful mantra. She was a minor then so she didn’t know the consequences, if she would have known she won’t have tested the mantra.
Lord Vishnu protects the devtas only when they are only the right path. He protects those who are on right path even asuras like Prahlad. When Debtas make errors due to pride the Supreme lord goes far from them. Lord doesn’t take sides after thinking who is a devta and who is an asura. Asura king Mahabali was a far superior dharmatma and a very dear devotee of Lord Vishnu after Prahlad Maharaj. Both are counted among renowned Bhagwats, he attacked devtas because he was the king of asuras so he was following his duty for his community. But when the Lord vanquished him by asking 3 steps of land he accepted his defeat and offered his head to the lord to keep the 3rd step on his head. He is more fortunate than devtas to get the touch of lord’s feet. He didn’t have attachment to the kingdom that he won by his prowess. So he readily gave it to the lord. As a prize lord Vishnu personally protects the gate of Bali as a gatekeeper. In Savarni Manvantar King Bali will be on the Post of Indra as destined by Lord Vishnu. Good fruits occur on basis of behavior not on basis of high birth, or being born in yonis of devtas or asuras. At the time of Pralaya even all devtas will be destroyed they are immortal till the coming of Pralaya. Law of nature is equal for everybody. Numerous Indra’s have been born and perished. You call some nice vedic pundit and just perform 100 sacrifices (Rajsurya or Aswamedha I am nor aware ) you too will be on the post of Indra Good qualities, fame and name don’t occur on just on basis of high birth or being born in dev yoni. Persons like Karna, Prahlad and Bali have proved it well. Ans that is why many parents name their child as Karna even today.
Jai Shri Krishna!
Chiraan said:August 20, 2010 at 16:29
DeletePrahlad and bali are bramhins by birth. So it was a high birth. any illicit birth is always demonic in nature. Thus it is deplored. You must know the theory of karma as told by yama to understand it, As budha is not demonic in nature, itself shows it is not illicit birth. [there is philosophy to be understood here].
EVERYBODY makes mistakes including Yudhishthir due to lesser knowledge of LORD. Thus subtle mistakes are pointed out. He was not human to make human like errors as pointed by you. similarly Devatas are not humanlike to make errors out of lust. so one must delve deep into the characters . But where there is demon [tamoprachur Vishnudweshi] there is evil and it is result of defects in birth, like KAMSA was also born to other than the husband of his mother who came in guise of her husband . look Kamsa was vishnudweshi.
You dont find vishnudweshi with son of GAUTAM.
Infact RAGAVENDRA SWAMY himself is born in GAUTAM vansha.
Orphanages are modern style statements, instead of donating to bramhins and temples people prefer donating to illicit borns as a mark of disrespect to very act of donation, it neither fetches punya but augments the vishnudwesha parampara .
One who does ashwamedha 100 times gets the post of IndRA, but getting a good pundit to get it done is not enough, ashwamedha yagnya means winning entire earth 100 times means defeating every king of his time , time and again all thorugh [every yaga takes a year of deeksha ie 100 times means 100 years if done consecutively and one must have strength and power to conquer various changing kings and political scenario]
one who can win earth at ease 100 times can only rule three worlds , again your exhibition of half knowledge is evident by making mockery of yagnyas and dana .
and equating prahlad to low birth is another folly of half knowledge. Yes many delusive souls do take fancy to illicit births. [ if illicit births were not evil then there would not have been the institution of marriage and sacred vows attached to it ]
Note: what is surprising about your posts is in one breath you seem to raise the characters to a level of divinity and in the same breath you attribute errors to them and justify them by saying they were only humans. You seem to a lot confused. A person can either be divine or human these are two different types of creature. Difference between a human and Devata is as equal as animal and humans.
Just as difference between animals and humans exist wrt to social framework so does devata and humans differ. it is very necessary to know this.
Just as Animals don't qualify to be compared to humans, so also humans don't qualify to be compared to DEVATAS. The same extends to Devils and demons.
Praveen said:August 20, 2010 at 18:43
DeleteFoster parents of Karna taught him good attributes of humanity like compassion and helping others. Being service class persons Adhiratha and Radha taught Karna not to be ungrateful to those who help and honor him in critcal situations. Karna followed the teaching of his parents by being compassionate, charitable and sticking to Duryodhana when he needed him. The pandavas were also taught good moral ethics by renowned teachers and elders like Bhishma and Drona so they became respectable in society. Karna and Pandavas earned fame according to the order and level of moral education they recieved. But case of Duryodhana was different he remained mostly in the bad company of Shakuni so he became wicked. Here were does the rule ” indefective birth develops Vishnu Dweshis ” work. This rule cannot work at all times. This world is a wonderful place any kind of miracle can happen at the will of God. Vedic scriptures have originated from God. God has not originated from them so sometimes he shows wonderful lilas which may be not according to rules of scriptures thats why we say ” Shri Krishnam Swayam Bhagwan Astu!
Chiraan said:August 20, 2010 at 20:20
DeleteIf Karna could imbibe good moral stories of His parent. Why did DUryodhan not imbibe same from BHEESHMA, Gandhari, dhritarashtra, and DRONA himself. If one Shakuni could make sweeping difference to a character . then BHEESHMA etc must have prevailed better on DURYODHAN as all of them lived in one place . Going by your Logic if one person’s company could make one evil then KARNA automatically becomes evil in the company of DURYODHAN and 100 such brothers. Who had authority over him and influence as well.
One does not become Vishnudweshi by company of people [people may commit sins in company]. One is always born Vishnudweshi and remains VISHNUDWESHI ever all through the cycle of creation. Such people are always born of defects .
If someone is trying to say people become evil by circumstances then it is false, then changing circumstances is always in LORDS’ hand . and not providing so becomes a partiality of LORD, BUT LORD is not partial, and even LORD does not go on reformist methods towards a evil vishnudweshi. Tamoyogya souls never change , their hate towards LORD increases birth after birth. Asuras[ vishnudweshi] never attain MOKSHA .
[KARNA and PANDAVAS and KAURAVAS received education from DRONA only yet they differed in characteristics i.e. one pure[pandavas], other mixed [karna] and other evil[kauravas]. This points out to the fact that evil is evil in all circumstances.