Veda Apaurasheyatva

 By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/16

Vyam Vedvyasaya Namaha

Sri Gurubhyo namaha

Sadagamaikvignyeyam samateetksharaksharam

Narayanam sada vande nirdoshasheshasadgunam

When Mercury is in deep exaltation in second house, Shani in paravatamasa, Jupiter in gopuramsa, the person becomes veda pandit. 

Why only Vedas should be considered supreme authority?

Sadagamaikvignyeyam:
Bramha can only be known through Vedas. The word sadagama refers to Vedas, Pancharatra, Moolramayana, Mahabharata, and Purana, and other treatises which are in sync with the above.

For every work the anubandachatushtaya must exist. What are they:

1. Vishaya (subject of enquiry) 

2. Prayojana (goal) 

3. Sambandha (relationship between previous two) 

4. Adhikarin (follower)

• 1. Narayan is the vishaya.
• 2. Knowledge of Narayana and attaining liberation (Moksha) through this knowledge is the proyojana.
• 3. Sajjana - all good souls are the adhikarin and
• 4. Relationship among these is sambandha.

Vedas declare themselves as supreme authority in conveying Narayana. 

Some statements are: 

 

“He who does not know Veda etc sacred scriptures will not be able to comprehend the Supreme who possesses infinite auspicious qualities and is all pervading. Veda teaches on to attain Moksha” ——– Taittiriya Shruti 

 

“The Knowledge of the Supreme cannot be obtained by logic, nor can it be removed by logic if already obtained. This knowledge when imparted by competent teacher leads to Vision of the Supreme” ——————–Kathak Sruti

 “Nor the senses, nor the inference can help comprehend Bramha, Vedas can alone enable one to comprehend HIM”—————-Pippalada Sruti 

Vedas are not compositions of any individual. i.e.. They do not have an author.

Let us examine this statement.

Vedas as recited by learned in Kashmir, and the one in Kanyakumari, or somewhere in Assam / Bengal, or far west in Gujarat will be same. There will not be any disagreement with the Vedic passages among these scholars, though these scholars might never have met each other.
And all these scholars unanimously accept that there never was an author to these passages, and they have been handed down revealed from time immemorial from father to son / guru to shishya etc.
In this world of copyright every single piece of useful info is patented and meticulously assigned ownership to author. And least to say how many cases are being fought in the name of royalties to known algorithms. Sometimes stolen or copied from others.

In such a practical scenario a content with enormous value to human being has not been claimed authorship, definitely augments the case of non composition by the Humans.
But some people argue there cannot be single statement which is not composed by a Human.

Let us explore a bit more:

The society needs moral laws. There has to be code for Dharma Adharma etc. These laws are beyond sense perception, and are accepted by all religious philosophers and thinkers.
If anyone says my philosophy has nothing to do with Dharma Adharma, then this teacher is without any subject and a purpose. Because if people believe there is no Dharma Adharma, then they will become aggressive and calamity will befall society. In such situation any harm done to very teacher himself will not be considered wrong. What's’ the use of such teaching which brings no good to teacher himself.

But at the same time a person cannot claim complete knowledge of Dharma Adharma all by himself without drawing authority from some source. Else he will have to postulate many attributes like non ignorance and non deception etc unto himself. Ignorance and defects of death and birth, and diseases are seen everywhere. So such a postulation is not observed in the real world. Hence concepts of Dharma Adhrama etc should come from a source that is not composition of individual or humans.

On the other hand if this is accepted nothing has to be postulated to accept Vedas as source.

Vedas are self evident (svatah pramana)
Knowledge is registered in our system, this is cognition.
what is validity of cognition?
A true knowledge / right knowledge is self evident!
I take a hot water bath, I feel ‘hot’, do I need anything else to validate this feeling of HOT!
It is self evident.
On the contrary a faulty cognition requires another agency to validate it being faulty. Sometimes through inspection. Hence scrutiny is required only for invalid cognition. Valid cognition does not require validation.
Vedas are self evident its only the mind / due to faulty thinking finds fault in it. Scrutiny is required to remove certain faults of thinking (i.e. invalid cognition).

Vedas are eternal
Finally in Sanskrit akshara (a aa e ee u uu etc) are eternal. They are neither created, nor destroyed. Sequence of these aksharas are also fixed, they are not formed as a probability.
These sequences are sentences which are of fixed nature. They exist in the mind of GOD. These fixed sequences are what known as Vedas. They are revealed to the seers sages in their penance.
Sound (shabda) syllable (akshara) is the manifested in space (Akasa) - is well known. Hence it can be seen. Thus this revealed knowledge is self evident because they are imperishable, and covey only truth because of their impersonal nature due to lack of authorship.
Narayana is the chief purport of Vedas he is above living (jeeva) and non living (jada) being and conveyed only through Vedas – Sadagamaikvignyeyam.

Krishnarpanamastu

5th House - Pratibha

By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/15

If 5th house is exalted and there is a relationship with the lagna lord, And both lords are in vaisheshika amsa, there will be special skill acquired by the native. Jupiter exalted in vimsamsa and Jupiter in kanduka will give the same result. 

Karna’s specialist skill:

He could never be defeated if is not competing. I.e. If he is fighting for justice or fighting as a duty, no one can defeat him. This was the boon of Parshuraam.

If he is fighting in the chariot given by Parshuram, then he cannot be disarmed, or his chariot never perishes.

His bow Vijay if its string is cut it automatically regenerates. They can send thousands of arrows in one single shoot.

Karna had Kavach and Kundal, with which he cannot be killed piercing that kavach by anyone who is below SUN deity.

Karna having Shakti in his hand any opponent is susceptible to death.

Karna had a special blessings of Krishna as Krishna himself was present in him at times. It is at these times that KARNA cannot be equalled by anyone. But then it is Krishna, and not Karna who is unrivalled in him. It was this presence of Krishna as avesha that caused fear among all the opponents.

Karna’s shortfall:

Karna had the curse of Parshuram that whenever he fights to obtain selfish desires, or competes on the footings of wrong intent, he will lose.

Karna had another curse that he would forget all his skill when he requires them most. Karna had another curse that he will lose his chariot when his death nears.

Karna had a boon that his fame will remain unsullied, and he will achieve what he was always clamouring for, to be called equal to Arjun.

Arjun’s special skill:

Arjun’s quiver never exhausted, they will automatically be filled with arrows. All others will have to carry arrows, but Arjun need not. He will always have quiver full of arrows. This was a special quiver.

Arjun’s bow could dispel eight variety of arrows:

a> One which can create a thousand arrows.

b> One which can create illusions , one which can show fiery images to opponents.

c> One which can cover entire battlefield to darkness with arrows.

d> One which can shield him from opponent arrows with a sheath of arrows 

e> One which can kill selectively from amongst the group 

f> One which can make visible invisible opponents 

g> Arrows which can search its target and hit. 

h> One which just touches the opponent without killing or hurting him.

Arjuns Gandiva was a bow, which could not be cut or its string does not slit. It produced sound that can kill a hundreds of elephants. Clouds rained just by the shriek of Gandiva.

Arjuns horses could not be slained. They can run in all 10 directions. They don’t tire and fly in the air as well. Arjuns chariot could not be destroyed. Up to one mile of chariot no ordinary arrows can even pierce its range leave alone reach Arjun.

The flag of chariot contained Hanuman, who by blowing wind through his mouth dispelled a storm, and enemy weapons and enemies like small soldiers would get blown away by the wind.

Arjun’s charioteer was Krishna who drove his chariot so fast that even before Arjun’s arrows touched the target, Arjuns chariot would have crossed it.

Arjun could pull arrow from both his hands, and could fight enemy invisible only through his sound. He could hit even at the leg of fly. He could send arrows as long as 200 yojan, that's 1600 miles.

Both Karna and Arjun could fight simultaneously with 1 Lakh Warriors along with their Armies.

Arjun and Karna’s shortfall - they were ordinary if without Astras. Karna needed both Boons and Astras to win. Arjun needed Astras only.

Bheema's speciality:

He was of superior most strength. He never used Astras. He was faster than Astra.

He was hotter than Astra i.e. Astras got burnt to ashes when touched Bheema.

He could dispel any Astra by his mere speed and strength. He had strength even in his skin. The weapons never hurt him as he could easily cut them through his hands and fists.

His hit of fists powdered mountains. He killed elephants and soldiers with fists only. He could kill 2 crore people in two vighatika 48 seconds.

He could fly, pierce through fire without getting hurt. He ran faster than chariots. He obstructed chariots by killing elephants and piling it all around the chariot.

His roar deafened horses and they died on the spot vomiting blood. He was terrible in the war, enemies ran away just by seeing him hence

He is known as BHEEMSEN. As Bheem only relied on strength and no astras or boons, he was the superior most Warrior.

Krishnarpana

Summary of Debate Arjun vis a vis Karna - 2

By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/13

Debaters
Surya | Chiraan

Observers
Sonu | Renu | Nilesh | Sundara | Neeraj 

Jury Hariprasad

Surya wants to settle the issue of Translation and original Sanskrit before going to new points.

He cites! 1. Ganguly, 2. M N Dutt, 3. R C Dutt, 4. Lal, to say Karna stringed the Bow.

Chiraan says all these authors have different versions, and they do not match with Sanskrit.

Hariprasad shows where Ganguly mentions Radha's son as failed for a shloka, R C Dutt shows it Shishupala failed, and MN Dutt shows it as Jarasandha Failed.
If Surya says they are all authentic, how these are different translation for same shloka.

Surya says: Although he does not know Sanskrit, they are all correct translations, and jury Hariprasad has no ability to read. There is no difference at all. He challenges to show the verses in Sanskrit by Chiraan where Karna failed or made an attempt.

Chiraan shows the verse, Surya says it is fabricated.

Chiraan says it is same Shloka which is mentioned in his site where Ganguly translation resides.

Surya says: The Sanskrit version at site is not acceptable, but Ganguly is acceptable.
If Chiraan can show same Sanskrit for MN Dutt [or if he proves M N Dutt translated from so and so Sanskrit] he would accept.

Hariprasad jury shows, In Sanskrit name Karna failed, and M N Dutt by the side of English he skips the name Karna. This is dubious.

Surya claims its the publishers mistake, he has pulled one Sanskrit version and printed against Dutt translation.

Chiraan says, Dutt mentions that it is Kolkata edition Sanskrit from where he has derived,
Ganguly says he has derived from Neelkantha and resorted to Bengali rendition.

LAL also confirms this in his book. P N Mullick also criticizes the interpolation and incidentally this book is co authored by MN Dutt .
So Ganguly shows error in writing Radha's son. LAl and Dutt agree Ganguly has interpolated. All these have derived from Bhasa. Who has written two plays [not translation] making a hero out of Duryodhan and Karna.

Such plays and its views cannot be accepted as authentic translation.

Surya feigns, he cannot see any such proof provided by the links. Whereas all the observers find them a learning experiences.

Surya says he accepts Vyasa Sanskrit, but is not ready to accept the shloka given by Chiraan, as there is scope for misinterpretation.

Chiraan says same shlokas are available in all sites on the internet, and no other version is available. And hence they have to be Vyasa Sanskrit shlokas, and the word "Karna" is clearly visible, and hence there is no scope for misinterpretation for word "Karna".

Surya says, all the sites showing that shloka are corrupt versions of Sanskrit including his own sacred-texts site [self contradictory].

Sundara exclaims Surya is wrong in his logic.

Renu feels Surya has clearly failed.

Neelesh finds Surya's logic utter nonsense. He admits he was fan of Karna after watching BRC tele-serial, but now after learning Karna debacles he has a change of mind.
He concludes Arjun is the best among the warriors and Karna is least evil among evils.

Neeraj finds it difficult to understand as why Chiraan is quoting Vivekananda, when he is not accepting his views .
Hariprasad unanimously says the logic of Surya is untenable.

Sonu puts forward following questions:

1. After Draupadi swayamvar Karna is defeated by Arjun.

2. Karna was defeated in Gandharva episode. He was captivated [fled by some] abandoning Duryodhan and army. He was rescued by ARJUN.

3. In Viraat episode Arjun single handedly defeats Drona, Bheeshma, and Karna all put together, and Karna flees from the battlefield.

4. When Drona demands gurudakshina to capture Drupada. Duryodhan along with Karna attack Drupad, but is defeated and rooted, and driven away. Arjun wins Drupad.

Why did Karna lose here [he had kavach kundal and boons everything]? Doesn't these loses prove him to inferior.

Surya defends: 

1. Karna was unprepared, he did not expect Bramhin to be serious adversary and hence lost.

2. In Gandharva episode, Karna was surprised [if you are expecting Veerappan and suddenly if you find Israelis what can you do], so because of element of surprise [gandharva was superior] was there he lost. Show similar incident for Arjun and I shall accept.

3. In Viraat parva too he was not aware Arjun was before him, hence he was unprepared.
Unpreparedness makes a warrior vulnerable. It is common and need not hamper Karna's greatness .

Chiraan shows: Arjun similarly fought chitrarathj gandharva when he did not even have a bow and arrow, and surprising attack in night, he hurled torch as astra and defeated gandharva.

Surya how can a gandharva be thought of formidable opponent. You must show some serious incident [Karna lost to Gandharva because gandharva was superior, yet when Arjun wins without weapons, it is just gandharva] [self contradictory].

Hariprasad jury points out,
How come Bramhin [Arjun in disguise] was not taken seriously by Karna, he had just demonstrated a superior skill, which all kshatriyas and Karna himself could not achieve [stringing of bow and hitting of fish]. Having witnessed superior skill Karna should have been more prepared, and Karna led the attack. So did he lead without preparation.

Surya says Karna thought it was roadside Bramhin who could have got a boon to win swayamvar, but will perform miserable in duel. [self contradictory].

Chiraan says if that was true why did all kshatriyas together fought one single Bramhin. Jarasandha was most feared demon in those days, when he failed and Bramhin succeeded that means he was superior to Jarasandha. At least Karna should have estimated that and he was prepared and defeated.

Hariprasad, shows in Viraat, Drona declares its Arjun coming to fight, and then Karna says even if it is Arjun he can vanquish, these words show he was well prepared, and he did see Arjun before him and knew it was Arjun. And he lost pathetically and fled the battlefield.

Surya, says karna was expecting Viraats, but he saw Arjun at the last moment, and there was no time for preparation, hence Karna was unprepared, and hence lost, but that does not show him to be less than Arjun.
Otherwise Why Yudhisthir will say he lost sleep for 13 years thinking about Karna despite these setbacks.
Chiraan Yudhisthir has said same thing about Krishna too, he said how can we vanquish Jarasandha, as Krishna himself could not vanquish him.
Yudhisthir is known to worry unnecessarily, his worry does not make Karna a great. By his worry even Krishna is susceptible to Jarasandha [which is clearly unacceptable].

Hariprasad, jury asks In Drupad war, it is clearly mentioned that Duryodhan and Karna, and all brothers get into competition as to who will first get to Drupad. Here Karna is well prepared. Karna knows the opponents as Drupad and Panchalas. He knows their strength, and he was fully equipped with kavach kundal, and bow VIJAY everything.
Then why did he lose ?

Surya says this was Drona's war, and Karna was not interested in winning it. He was less enthusiastic so he lost. We cannot consider this loss as mark of inferiority. [Self contradictory]. Karna lost even when prepared. And opponent Surya accepts it.

Haripasad, Jury says Surya's remarks defies elementary logic. 
Karna lost to Drupad, Arjun thrice, Gandharva, Bheemasen, Ghatotkach, Satyaki, Abhimanyu. He also failed to string the bow in Draupadi Swayamvar. So with so many failures Karna cannot be declared as supreme warrior.
Arjun is undoubtedly a superior warrior than Karna, as he never lost a battle until Krishna was there on the earth.

Krishnarpana

Pashandamatha Khandan - Refutation of Jain Philosophy

 By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/12

• When eighth lord is in lagna, the native is Vishnu drohi
• When tenth lord is in eighth native engages in devaninda
• When eighth lord is in eighth, native is anyathavadi [Vitand]
• When eighth lord is in ninth one is nastik [atheist], pashandi
• When saturn and Rahu are in eighth one indulges in Himsa [violence]

Vishnu took avatara as “budhdha” to delude many ‘tripurasuras’. Some of these were reborn as sons of Jin and came to be known as Jains. 

Jains refute violence.
They believe in Ahimsa.

People believing in Vedas carry out yagnya. In yagnya Pashu himsa [animal sacrifice] is common. Jains say this is deplorable, and hence it is violence and against dharma. Thus Vedas are not truth and not acceptable.

Pontiff Vadiraaj says "Oh Jains, your ancestor Jin [the one who has propagated your philosophy] was born in Kaliyuga. Even before he was born, Indra has done 100 ashvamedha yaga and became eligible for Indra post.
Bramha obtained the post of Bramha by performing ‘Rajsuya yaga’ Vashishtha, Prithuchakravarthi etc infinite people have done yagas. Were these all ancestors ignorant than Kali born Jina".

Jains proclaim "Pashuhimsa in yagnya is noble to you because it was carried out by Indra and others, as they were born before Jina. Then we ask you your Sri Madhvacharya was born after Jina was born. Then why is Jain philosophy brought before birth of Madhacharya not acceptable?
Jains, so just as Jain philosophy though born before Madhvacharya is challenged by you, similarly yagnya and pashu himsa is also susceptible to challenge even if it is done prior to Jina".

Vadiraja, "our Madhvacharya has taken birth in Kaliyuga at the same time he has accepted Vedas, and the culture of earlier born Indra and others. But jina has taken birth in Kaliyuga and is challenging the prachin anushthana [tradition].
So the comparison doesn’t stand, as it is the question of challenging tradition ancient, and not person born ancient.
Just because Jina was born prior to so and so, his challenge to tradition cannot be taken as acceptable because all born prior have not challenged tradition".

Jain, "Brahma, Indra have done Yagnya, you proclaim,! How should we believe that they have done so?”

Vadiraaj, "Bramha has done Rajsuya and the place is famous by name ‘Prayaag’ even today. Indra is famous as ‘Shatakratu’ [one who has done 100 yagnyas]. Vashishtha is known as ‘Paramyagnik’.
Vishwamitra is known to have taken RAMA to save yagnya in ‘Ramayana’.
Horses were known to be left to circle earth for Ashwamedha and many who intercepted, battled out for supremacy! All these are well known in history and famously recited traditionally for years.
Thus the yagnyas were done prior by Bramha Indra etc are without doubt acceptable".

Jains, "Because Indra etc have done Yagnyas and Pashuhimsa is part and parcel of yagnya, and thus it is acceptable is what you say! But why cant we think these Bramha, Indra etc were under illusion that they got results due to Yagnya, they might have as well got good fortunes without these rituals as well? But it could be their illusion [Bhranthi, Bhrama] that they have acquired good results through Yagnya! Why this cannot be true! How should we believe that results came only because of pashu himsa in Vedic rituals. They could have erred in doing so, and we say they have, and hence Animal sacrifice is wrong".

Vadiraaj, "If results were achieved by mere simple exercises like agricultural, ploughing etc, or any other simple less exerting exercises or phenomenon, then perhaps your statements that they might have been illusion may sustain.
But a Vedic ritual involves lot of expenditure, running into crores of rupees, and also it requires lot of exertion with regards to fasting months together, and resorting to penance and niyamas. Were so many infinite people Bramha and Indra and others fools [aviveki] to have undergone so much labour and exertion. Why would so many follow to [illusive] exercise, if it were [Bhrama] and waste crores of rupees, and at the same time exertion of body. Will an entire civilization spend and toil for benefits that were illusive.
How have you understood them as subject to illusion? Illusion can be resorted to only when it is easily available or achievable, yagnyas like ashwamedha, rajasuya are not easy, and effortless activities. So to make such activities one has to be quite know-ledged, and sure!!".

Jains, "By killing [sacrificing] animals in rituals no result would have been possible, it is cold blooded murder and cruelty onto animal"

Vadiraj, "Vedic mantras purify these animals and that becomes havissa for the deity, and deity happy at it gives Swarga to the animal [soul] sacrificed, and also to the performer goes to swarga"
"King gives salary [money] to the soldiers and asks them to fight a war, these soldiers die. They achieve swarga, and King by murdering [violence to soldier] these soldiers on his behalf [giving money] is not known to have acquired sin. Even this King also goes to swarga for waging war".

"Doctor undertake himsa [violence] while operating on patients, they give misery to him and yet when he is cured he blesses Doctor. So Himsa is not always deplorable, at times it is acceptable in this world and it is seen”
"Likewise before animal is subjected to violence and then it is also given happiness in swarga, which all by itself this animal could never have got !!”

Jains, "So you accept that there is some element of dukha to animal while sacrificing! Why cant we say that yagniks are adharmik because they are giving dukha to animal".

Vadiraj, "Jin advises 'Shravak' vrat whereby 'keshollunchan' each strand of hair is uprooted, this this not painful and dukhakar isn’t Jin who advices such a painful activity violent [himsak]. But he advises so that end result is happy, and just as you accept him yagniks are acceptable".

Jains, "Nobody has seen an animal sacrificed in ritual going to swarga, so swargaprapti for animal is false".

Vadiraj, "Jains believe in the words of Jin, and resort to 'panchamaldharan' [i.e. withholding all the secretions of eyes, ears, mouth, genital and anus], expecting some happiness that is to come in future. This happiness has also been not seen by anyone till date. How come you don’t feel like animals [which incidentally also don’t clean mouth anus etc forever], and yet believe in this Jin for some expected happiness".

Jains, "Okay then we cannot establish our future happiness, and neither can you establish pashuhimasa as swargaprada, so are we not sailing in the same boat".

Vadiraaj, "Definitely not!! Vashishtha etc had the ability to go swarga, and there they have witnessed the sacrificed animal enjoying in swarga! By the experiences of these great Rishis we have come to know about happiness of sacrificed animals and also yagnyakarta".
"Jin is not known to be capable of foretelling the status of panchamaldhari’s, but vashishtha is famous as trikalgnyani".
Jin being so there is no proof either textual or fact!

To be contd ……………..

Krishnarpanamastu

Vada Vadi Partivadi - Refutation of Charvak

By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/11

• The person who puts forth the first statement, or concept, or accusation is known as Vadi.
• One who defends himself from accusation or protects his own logic is Prativadi

• There are actually four types of discussions:

• Samvaada

• Vaada

• Jalpa 

• Vitanda

• Samvaada is the discussion between the teacher and the taught as is Shree Krishna-Arujuna samvaada. The student does not question the teacher, but questions his understanding for clarification. This type of discussion can occur only when the student surrenders himself completely at the feet of the teacher.

• Vaada is the discussion between two equals for mutual enhancement of knowledge – the purpose is to settle what the truth is. Both come to the table for discussion with an open mind, and the discussion is based on some accepted pramaana of the authority.

• Jalpa is where each debater comes to the table with preconceived notion that he is right and the other fellow is wrong. The other fellow also comes with the same notion. The purpose of the discussion is only to convert the other fellow to his camp. There is no knowledge that takes place in these discussions. Even if one is loosing his arguments, he only goes and comes back with more ammunition to defend himself. Only lot of noise. But those who are bystander can learn the defect in each of their arguments, and they can learn out of these discussions.

• Vitanda is some what peculiar. In these discussions one is ready to take up the other fellows arguments, which he himself does not believe in, but argues against the other fellow just to prove that he is wrong. This is also accepted arguments and is used very effectively to prove there is no credibility for the opponent. You are wrong, not because the statement by itself is wrong but it is wrong because you made that statement.

• When Benefics are in eleventh like Jupiter, Venus, or Mercury or if Sun is in 11th then Prativadi wins the debate. Or the one who opens the debate looses.
• When these planets are in 10th then Vadi wins.
• When one opens the debate in an ascendant, the 4th from which happens to be fiery sign, the opponent runs away.
• If Sun tenants lagna or 10th house or benefics occupy them there will be increase of knowledge. Jupiter increases knowledge, Venus poetic skills, and Mercury communication skills.
• In 10th a benefic will spread knowledge.

Madhvacharya has written an exclusive grantha "Katha Laxan" explaining the various forms of debates and methods to tackle them, and types of proof to present to uphold VEDAS.

Here is sample debate of Acharya with a Charvak.

A Charvak is an atheist. [Charu- sweet Vak- speech] [I would term it as Kshar vak].

A Charvak was a Brahmin who believed only in perception. Acquiring of knowledge through sense perception alone. He refutes inference and Vedas or textual scriptures as not reliable in matters of knowledge.

A Charvak is modern theory of materialism: Yesterday has gone by, tomorrow is not yet seen, so live in the present and enjoy. Enjoy and celebrate your senses, even if you have to borrow money, without adhering to any dharma or bindings.

Out of the aphorisms of Brihaspati came a whole school of Hindu materialists, named after one of them, Charvakas. They laughed at the notion that the Vedas were divinely revealed truth. Truth, they argued can never be known, except through the senses. Even reason is not to be trusted, for every inference depends for its validity not only upon accurate observation and correct reasoning, but also upon the assumption that the future will behave like the past.

One may ask why there are so many philosophies in the world, why the debates, and why cant only one dharma prevail. Why?
The answer is
1) Dourlabhyaat shuddha-buddheenaam [due to lack of pure intellect]
2) Baahulyaat alpavedinaam [due to lot of ignorant people]
3) Duraagraha-gRuheetatvaat [due to prejudices]
4) Vartante samayaaH sadaa [all faiths remain for ever]

The discussion goes thus:

Charvak: I believe in only sense perception.

Madhvacharya: How did you come to know about your belief!

Charvak: No answer! [Belief is not perceived by any senses].

Charvak proclaim only eyes etc senses [jnanendriya] are true. This statement is self contradictory. Here if one relies purely on the senses for knowledge, then one is denying the self and its existence as the one who is actually gaining the knowledge.
This self is not visible or heard.
We say "this is my hand", "this is my body", the word "my" is indicative, and is inferred by someone inside as neither hand, nor the body that is seen or heard is "me".
The self contradictory [vyahatha bhasha] is imperative in Charvak’s words. What is vyahatha?

It is akin to saying "My mother is a barren woman".
The sentence itself shows it is wrong and contradictory.
If the mother was barren how did she become a mother!!!!!

If a Charvak is teaching his student his philosophy, how can he deduct that student has learnt his philosophy, by facial expression? He will have to somewhere infer it.
So inference has to be accepted by Charvakas.

Third is the textual proof. Charvak says it cannot be believed.
What people say what Vedas say, what religion says need not be true.

Let us ask a Charvak what day is today?

Charvak says it is Thursday! How did he come to know that?

Either he will have to refer a calendar for that and accept the text written “Today is Thursday”, so Charvak is accepting Textual proof as well.

Let us also give him sentences "Text is not acceptable".
Charvak if he says he does not accept.
Then he is accepting that text is acceptable.
If he says yes text is not acceptable, then he is accepting the given sentence as proof !

Thus beyond doubt Charvak becomes a vyahatha Bhashi.

Vedvyasa in Brahma sutra refutes Charvak matha by following aphorism

|| Om abyugamepi arthaabavaath Om ||

• Philosophy is meant to increase happiness.
• Happiness more than what we presently have.
• Philosophy is meant to reduce miseries in present birth and freedom from misery forever.
• If philosophy does not say what to do and what not to do, then it is of no use.
• The perception and relying solely on it is form of self denial and existence.
• It is akin to ignoring self.
• So such philosophy should be discarded.

Krishnarpanamastu

Devakanya - The Story of Tapti

By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/10

• When Mars, Jupiter and Venus are associated in one rashi [yuti] then the subject will have a devata stree [or qualities of devata like] woman as his wife.
• When upapada lord is exalted and in devalokamasa, a devata will be the wife of the native.
• In all the above combinations Woman will be begged to be wife of the suitor MAN. Woman will be pampered and the person having such combination will perform penance, vows and extraordinary acts to express his love to the concerned woman. The woman invariably has the man yearn for her.

Kings like Pururava, Shantanu and Samvarna are known to have married the woman from heavens. This is unique Human form is different and Devatas have different bodies. Yet when celestials are born on earth, their wives also take birth as human and they marry. But the kings mentioned above had different cases. These were born as Human, yet their wife never took birth on earth, they married these Kings remaining in their Devata form only.

Thus the yoga of having Devakanya as wife can be seen in these horoscopes. 

Once a beautiful daughter was born to celestial god of light SUN. He named her TAPTI, she was perfect damsel with large dark eyes. Her heavenly form was unparalleled in three worlds. Sun grew anxious as to whom he should give his daughter to. He decided to give her in marriage to the one who deeply loves her and at the same time is equally beautiful.

In the lunar race was born a King named Samvarna. He was very handsome and known for possessing a beautiful body. He was equally ascetic. He prayed Surya [Tapana] everyday with arghya padya and pushpa gandha etc to attain glory and fame. He was a king ruling entire jambudweepa, soothing as moon to friends and scorching as sun to enemies.

Once the King went into deep forests over the mountains. Wandering deep into woods, his steeds [horses] gave way due to thirst and fatigue. King left those horses there, and walked deep into the mountains.
As he was tired, he fell down on the ground. Just then he saw a bright light emanating far away rising towards the skies.

He felt curious and neared the light to see a very beautiful damsel, with perfect faultless features. She was exceedingly beautiful, and as she strode around, the light emanating from her body dazzled and lit the forest like a early morning Sun. In form she resembled a golden statue, such was the hue of her skin. King dumbstruck at her beauty went near her, and stood motionless at her sight. His heart was aching with the strike of cupids arrow.
Love struck King said "oh great beauty with large dark eyes, you do not seem to be a human, nor a gandharva or nor yaksha, neither I see arakshas, or asura maya as they cannot come near me. The apsaras are nowhere remotely nearer to you in beauty and lustre. Are you the goddess of wealth, it cannot be as I am struck with unbearable KAMA, you cannot be one. Oh beautiful one who are you? I desire your company forever in my life. My life feels like a wasteful burden until now, as I see you, I feel a new zeal to live a life exclusively for you".
As King Samvarna was speaking these words, the beautiful damsel vanished from the sight of mortals, like a lightning, there was darkness all around. Deeply hurt and unable to bear the pain and permanently lovestruck King lost his senses, and fell on the ground thinking about the girl he had just seen.

After sometime seeing the handsome King unconscious, Tapti appeared again, and with a sprinkle of water on the king’s face she woke him up to senses. King opening his eyes finding his love standing before him could not believe for a moment, and not differentiating the reality and illusion asked whether the beautiful daughter of SUN to dispel his illusion. King spoke "oh the beauty with heavenly hue, know me to be drawn to you as the bhramar towards the lotus, I beg you to be my wife for I desire not to live without you"
Tapti spoke thus "oh ruler of earth know this to be real , you are brave and illustrious among men. Who in the three worlds will not desire to marry such a handsome and pious gem among men. Know yourself to be in my heart, pleased as I am to know that you love me to the point of bewilderment. Your losing senses at my disappearance speaks of my good fortune. But I am not independent in taking decisions. I am bound by the decisions of my father the Sun. If he so wishes I shall be your wife serving you all my life at your feet".

Saying this she ascended to the heavens with a splurge of light rising towards the surya loka. The king fell on the ground again motionless, as there never was a moment before a devakanya ever getting married to a human [manava]. Sun being his aradhya devata, he dared not to make such a proposal, but his heart could not let go the thought of beautiful Tapti, it yearned for her, and with every moment passing the King lost all his senses, and fell to ground like a heap of grain.

Seeing King not returned for long, the ministers searched the entire forest, and finally found the King lying on the ground. The ministers assured King there would food made available immediately and water and drinks were fetched, but King would take none. The rajvaidya declared him to be afflicted mentally. King refused to be moved from forests and to partake food or drink.
He neither moved his lids, nor his body, and stay laid in the midst of the forest on the mountain top gazing at the sun. Not knowing King’s plight the ministers grew anxious, and slowly whole of the King’s well wishers started praying for him. Just then Rishi Vashishtha came by, with his divine knowledge and divyadrishti, he soon found out the plight of the KING.

He ascended with the power of his tapasya towards heavens. He went to Surya loka and Sun looking at the bramhan bramharishi Vashishtha at his doorstep offered arghya padya and madhu. He said unto the rishi, "blessed as I am by your arrival oh great Bramhan. I see my abode graced by lord, appearing in your form unto my place of dwelling. I shall give you whatever you ask for, in this three worlds whatever you desire for shall be yours! kindly order".

Hearing these words Vashishtha spoke, "oh father of beautiful Tapti, I ask you to accept King Samvarna as your Son in-law, for there is no one as beautiful as him among Devatas and manavas. He is the best of the rulers in the three worlds, just like Indra, he is rules justly the land of mortals. He is pious and given to austerities. He is of noble race and ardently devoted to you and his duties towards the subjects. He is befittingly the best suit for your daughter as also she has secretly given her heart to him, and awaits your permission. The king has forsaken food, water and readied himself to end his life for his love towards your daughter. Know him to be best for Tapti, and also to mankind".

Surya the deity of light happily exclaimed, "what good fortune has fallen on my daughter, the proposal so brought by the greatest of Bramahanas, how can it be not accepted. Indeed I shall be bestow my daughter to the greatest scion of human clan. Know that it was indeed my wish too, to have him as my son in-law, you have relieved me of a great pain and search for a suitable groom".

Together with Tapti, Sun descended illuminating the whole of forest like a fire, there the King on the twelfth day of his fast and vow, on seeing Tapti and Sun, elated and partook food and bowed to Sage Vashishtha.

The marriage was celebrated in the three worlds. King dwelled in the same forest for another twelve years leaving the kingdom to his ministers.
Sun in order not to disturb the love life of her daughter in the forest, did not give rains for twelve full years. And shone mildly with gentle breeze and prosperous flora and fauna.

King enjoyed the company of his beautiful wife for twelve years, but by then his capital was forced into draught due to lack of water and rains. People grew sick and struck with diseases, the city resembled the city of dead. Vashishtha looking at the plight of the people asked the king to return to the capital. As King and his auspicious wife [Devakanya] stepped into the city, Sun gave full rains and farms grew green, and city flooded with milk, and precious stones much to the delight of citizens.

To these illustrious couple was born the greatest Kings of all time "KURU".

Thus gandharva told ARJUN the story of his preceptor “KURU”. And advised Yudhisthir to look for a able priest. As without able Bramhin priest heading the family, a Person or KING cannot prosper. Kings desirous of wealth and Kingdom, and fulfilments of wishes must seek a Bramhin Priest, well versed in all the shastras and Vedas, and six Vedangas as Raj purohit . Just As Vashishta enabled Samvarna to obtain his wishes, so you too YudhishthirS shall obtain your destiny By the blessing of DHOUMYACHARYA.

Krishnarpana

Why was Mahabharta tampered?

 By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/09

• When mercury is afflicted by malefic in earthy signs, a discussion on pollution of literary works definitely occur.
• When such a combination is in Kendra, falsifying great works and tenets and illusive arguments take place.
• When such combinations occur in second house, invariably persons lie.
• When Jupiter is in Kendra to such combination, such allegations are usually cooked up.
• The extent of pollution depends upon the number of shad Vargas in which Mercury is aspected/associated by malefic. 

MAHABHARATHA has been tampered thoroughly. WHY?

After 1000 years of PANDAV rule dharma started eroding on the earth. I.e. that was 4000 years ago .i.e. Yudhishthir ruled 5100 years ago, and his dynasty ruled for 1000 years. With Kshemak as the last king.
Duryodhan had done only one good deed in his lifetime that is washing the feet of DURVASA muni. [This also he did to ask a boon to trouble Pandavs]. For this he achieved swarga for 4300 years.
This was the period i.e. 13th century when KALI expanded full throttle.

1. In previous eras there ensued direct fight between Rakshasa and Devatas. Rakshasa headed by Kali were always vanquished by Devatas, with the help of Vishnu.

2. In Dwapar, Kali decided that If Vishnu does not interfere, if we take birth in the same family as that of Devatas then these Devatas will out of affection will not kill us.{This explains why Duryodhan did not come out of womb for two years till Yudhisthir took birth}.

a. Krishna gives Geetopadesha to remove the illusion of relationship wrt Rakshasas and go for WAR. Krishna always vanquishes Kali with VAYU as chief instrument.

b. In Ramayana RAM [Vishnu] vanquished Kali [in RAVAN] with chief instrument Hanuman [Vayu].

c. In Mahabharata, Krishna [Vishnu] vanquished Kali [Duryodhan] with chief Bheema [Vayu].

3. When beaten severely, all the Rakshasas were afraid to incarnate due to the fear of Bheema.

4. Kali assured them as it is Kaliyuga, it is his Yuga and Lord has given him boon to freely rein in this era.

5. But other demons were not convinced and showed fear of Bheema reincarnating.

6. Then Kali suggested they should all take birth as Brahmins, so that they will not be killed.

7. But how will they be able to spread violence and unhappiness.

8. Kali, said people follow what Brahmins say, Brahmins have extreme faith in Vedas and Itihas Puranas. These lead to pleasing of Vishnu.

9. If these are distorted then automatically people will get into delusion. This will prevent them from getting Grace of Vishnu, and fallen as they will be, we shall enter them, and these will resort to violence, greed and sins.

10. As this can be achieved by preaching wrong notions, we shall all take birth as Bramhins and sanyasis, masses will follow us. Born as Brahmins we are, Bheema cannot kill us as it is taboo.

11. Just as 1000 years were completed, Lord enacted Baudhdha avatar to preach Non Vedic religion, taking a cue, Kali took the birth of Shakya muni and several others took births as Mishra, Kumar Bhat, Bhasas, Arya, Harsha, Govind, Charvak, Bhaskar, Prabhakar, Kapali, Ghoramitra, Vachaspati, Satyasimha, Vidyaranya, Vetal, Vatsyayan, Jeevpada etc.

12. All the above mentioned Bramhins have especially distorted a branch of learning, giving rise to new philosophy.

13. All resorted to Bhairav sidhhi to enchant the rulers and killed many Vedic pandits by deceit and demonic spells. Illusion prevailed all over as Non Vedic religions started spreading everywhere and grocery shops, and Kingly courts became favourite preaching premises of Non Vedic culture.

14. Next few centuries saw onslaught of such culture with non kshatriya Kings easily succumbing to indrajala of shakyas and pashand mata, as this gave them a freedom from Bramhin stronghold in the administration.

15. As 8th century dawned, Budhism was everywhere as it was Non Vedic culture, Most Bramhins did not take to it, Itihas and Puranas as misinterpreted by these did not appeal to the masses.

16. So Kali sent demon Manimanta [Ekalavya], who was reluctant. All the demons from patala encouraged him, and announced support by entering his opponents to get disillusioned.

17. Manimantha prayed Lord Shiva to assist him in knowing Vedas. Shiva gave a boon to utter Vedic verses, and Ekalavya was born as Bramhin.

18. Manimantha spread the new concept of illusion of world and absence of soul.

19. This however technically was not at all different from Buddhism as Buddhism too dealt with Shunya [whether you call world unreal or shunya does that make any difference] but now this new concept had the backing of Vedas.

20. This misrepresentation was acceptable to Bramhins and demonic spell ensured they all succumbed to this logic. [Gautam rishi’s curse was also responsible for this illusion].

21. But most of the Puranas and Itihas [MAHABHARATA] was still theistic in nature, and it contradicted with monotheism of the post 8th century scholarly compositions.

22. To make these texts [Mahabharata and Puranas] look like upholding monotheism and qualified monotheism, the verse where explicit dualism was present was altered. Agni Purana was fully tampered, and slowly all puranas succumbed at the hands of rulers.

23. Most ardent Vedic Scholars flew beyond mountains not bearing the torture of the lands. And thus three centuries of confusion and malpractices ensued.

24. Vedic rites were not performed as it was meant to be illusionary, no yagnyas were performed as it involved bali, sacrifice of animals and Jain rulers were against it.

25. Vedvyasa prayed by Bramha and other deities at the failing situation of dharma in Land of Gods, ordered Bheema to incarnate and spread the right knowledge.

26. A part of Bheemasen [amsha] incarnated in UDUPI [PAJAK] in the house of Madhygeha Bhat [tulu speaking Bramhin] as Vasudev.

27. Vasudev at the age of 10 renounced the world and became ordained as Anandteertha.

28. As his teacher Achyutpreksha readied him to teach first lesson in monotheistic book, Acharya Anandateertha explained a 100 mistakes in the very first verses of the book Istasidhdhi.

29. amazed at the ability of student Achyutpreksha asked Him as to what is right knowledge.

30. Acharya then propounded MADHVA philosophy.

a. That Vishnu is Supreme deity { GOD}.

b. None is either equal to him or greater than him.

c. Neither in the past or nor in future.

d. This world is real.

e. Moksha is unmixed happiness.

f. It is obtained by perfect bhakti [amlabhakti].

g. Study of shastras is what ensures such bhakti.

h. The world consists of five fold differences.

i. Lord is essentially different from Soul.

j. Acharya wrote 37 grantha to prove and propound his philosophy.

k. Nowhere Acharya said that this his philosophy.

l. He said he is merely resurrecting what had be practiced in Vedas in accordance with Vedvyasa rendering.

m. He gave only Vedic and Puranic verses as statements backing his claims.

n. He wrote Mahabharta Tatparya Nirnay to dispel the myths surrounding the epic. He collected many manuscripts, and weeded out discrepancies and anomalies to give exact verses and meaning of the Mahabharat.

o. According to Acharya, Mahabharata has 10 meanings, and it is impossible even for Indra to understand all the 10 meanings.

p. Acharya has demonstrated each word [name] in VISHNUSAHASRANAM has 100 meanings each.

q. Acharya Madhva's works are too intense for a smaller brains like mine to grasp. In order to grasp the concepts, saint Raghavendra Swamy of Mantralayam has written more than 100 works simplifying the Anadateertha philosophy for common man with notes and commentary.

r. What has been presented here all along is in accordance with these

Krishnarpanamastu

Summary of Debate on Arjun vs Karna - 1

By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/04

Debator
Surya | Chiraan
Jury
Hariprasad, Amit, Nilambar
Obsever
Sonu, Nilesh

Chiraan invites Surya to a debate on:

Whether is Karna is Superior to Arjun? 
Was Karna Evil?
Chiraan starts the debate with invitation to decide which is authentic translation of MAHABHARATA! Surya refuses to be drawn into debate on what is authentic, and what is unauthentic? He also refuses to be drawn into deciding what is evil?

Chiraan concludes that authentic translations should not contain anomalies, and should remain faithful to the original Sanskrit Mahabharat by Vyasa, and translation should conform to traditions of India.

Chiraan offers Surya to raise questions!

Surya opens debate with the birth of Karna:

1. Had Kunti not abandoned Karna at birth, Karna would have been taught by Drona .Would not have attracted curses.
2. He would have occupied the throne.
3. He would not have been abused racially.
4. He would have married Draupadi.
5. Duryodhan would not have waged war.
So Kunti is irresponsible mother and the main reason for the debacle of Karna.

Chiraan argues:

1. Kunti is solely responsible for betterment of Karna. She is one woman who never had sex in her Life. Karna was not born out of premarital sex, but as a boon from Durvasa through SUN, who himself incarnated through her womb. Both Karna and Sun were uninvited guests to her house, she was all but six years of age. When she was not in a position of raising the child, she ensured him better upbringing:
a. By giving him Kavach Kundal [physical protection].
b. Protection of Father [Sun always spoke to Karna in distress].
c. Enough money / diamonds to ensure RADHA raises him.

Surya argues: Had she confessed to Pandu about her son, he would have agreed to make him King.

Chiraan: Even if she had agreed, Karna would not become King as he is not son of Pandu.

Kunti having given him up saved him from being called KANIN, and people of Hastinapur would not accept a KANIN to be a King, as was evident when Duryodhan raised doubts over Yudhisthir none objected until Vedavyasa came, and told that they were born in presence of PANDU.
Since he was not suspected as KANIN, Karna got best education from Parshuram [GOD] himself better than Arjun.
He got best astras and weapons than ARJUN.
He got better education is known from the fact that he exhibited all that Arjun exhibited during tournament.
Karna could not have become KING.
Duryodhan made him a king against the rule of land.

Surya: when his archery was exhibited why was he not eligible to become a king. Why did Bheema abuse him.

Chiraan: A suta is not kshatriya, he is charioteer but a higher caste. A suta cannot become King. only kshatriyas become King, a caste is determined not by birth but by sanskar [rites] that are performed. Karna had rites of SUTA so he remained a suta. A suta cannot challenge a Prince, so unequal warfare was stopped between Karna and Arjun.

Surya Drona rejected Karna on grounds of caste? Injustice.

Chiraan: Drona did not reject Karna on basis of Caste, but he rejected him because the he was teaching only princes of Hastinapur.

Surya: Parshuram would have rejected Karna had he told he was Kshatriya or suta, so he lied to him as Bramhin and got education ! He was smarter.

Chiraan: God is all knowing, he knew Karna was Kshatriya and hence he taught him, but since he lied, he was cursed. Had he told he was suta he would have got education as suta is higher caste and given education in gurukul.
But Karna wanted to excel in astra vidya more than other kshatriyas, hence he lied as Bramhins had more astra vidya than kshatriya. Proof Ashwaththama showed more proficiency in tournament than Karna and Arjun.

Surya : What’s wrong in zeal ?

Chiraan: Teacher never teaches looking at zeal of the student, but at the capacity of the student, zeal is not virtue!

So it was good fortune of Karna he had better education than Arjun, and God gave him so, and not because Karna tricked him, else that would raise doubts over all knowing quality of GOD, which is clearly unacceptable.

Surya: Karna would have married Draupadi, as he would not have been rejected by Draupadi as suta, and he would have hit the fish in swayamvar.

Chiraan: Karna failed in Swayamvar, he could not string the bow leave aside hitting the mark.
Surya has been all along debating upon relying on Kisari Mohan Ganguly Translation of Mahabharata.
But the same translation shows in one passage Karna as being rejected by Draupadi, just as he strung the bow and was ready to hit the mark. In the very next passage Ganguly writes Karna along with Shalya failed in stringing the bow.
This constitutes anomaly and renders the translation as unauthentic.

Surya: The verse where People failed to string the bow are: Radha’s son, Vakra and Shalya, here Radha’s son is another son of RADHA [Karna’s brother and not Karna].

Chiraan: Was this Radha’s son not suta, then how Draupadi did not object to this one participating .

Surya says Draupadi had a double standard.

Chiraan: If Ganguly’s version is translation, then in original Sanskrit it is written as “KARNA’ and “SHALYA” as failed to string and not Radha’s son. Ganguly has tampered the text by translating KARNA as Radha’s son .

Surya accuses Chiraan of being like mullahs and evangelist, who resort to Arabic or Hebrew when cornered.

Chiraan: Whether Hebrew or Arabic or Sanskrit, a word Karna would mean Karna only.

Chiraan gives alternate translation from Russian library and ISCKON writings. This version of ADI parva Mahabharata says Karna did not string the bow, and failed in Swayamvar and there was no abuse from Draupadi.

C.Rajgopalachary renowned Sanskrit scholar says Karna did not string the bow but failed by hairs breadth.
Swaminathan in his book also says Karna failed. This book is read in universities.
Swamy Vivekananda expresses Karna was not rejected by Draupadi.

Surya says, these are all abridged versions and drawn from internet dustbin, and cannot be taken as authentic. Ganguly is authentic because it is approved by Wikepedia.
Chiraan shows Wikepedia is not authentic as anyone can change contents.

Jury Amit agrees Radha’s son is Karna only. But raises a doubt if Karna could string VIJAY a bow given by Parshuram then how could he not string relatively lesser bow. So common sense suggests Karna strung the bow.

Chiraan: Though Vijay is superior bow, it is a boon from Parshuram and Karna could lift it with boon. So could Arjun lift Gandeev because of boon, so also Drupad’s bow was presented with a rider only Arjun could string. Moreover Gandeev and Vijay were celestial bows did not require stringing as they were auto strung.

Surya says: Karna stringing is there in authentic RC DUTT translation, why it cannot be deemed that Chiraan is fabricating incidents, rather than Ganguly who is acclaimed by scholars?

Jury Hariprasad says, R C Dutt has also fabricated as, instead of Radha’s son, he has written Shishupal, if Ganguly is authentic then it becomes Radha’s son as failed, and RC DUTT says Shishupala. How come two authentic translation give different translation of same verse.
It shows anomaly. He gives verdict as Karna did not abuse and did not string the bow and failed in swayamvar.

Chiraan says:
The whole of Mahabharat is recited by SUTA, the son of Lomaharshan. The very first verse in Mahabharata starts with Saunaka asking Oh Son of Suta, please recite Mahabharata.
Suta is born to Bramhin mother and Kshatriya Father. If both parents are higher caste, how s the child relegated to be abused caste. Then how come Saunaka rishi and other Bramhin rishis are learning from SUTA the great epic of Mahabharta.

The Ganguly text translates the first verse as SAUTI say's instead of Suta uvacha.

The first verse itself has anomaly. So Suta is not a racial abuse, and pseudo sympathy for Karna as being abused as SUTA does not stand logically as he never was abused.

He clearly failed in Swayamvar. If Draupadi were not interested in him, then he would not have been invited, twice DRUPAD and Dhristadhyumn mention his name as invitee to the swayamvar. If he was unwelcome his name would have been struck or never mentioned. After mentioning his name, Drupad and Dhristadhyumn makes a vow that whoever strikes will get Draupadi. So Draupadi could not have gone against the words of Father and Brother as she was epitome of virtue.
So Karna clearly failed in Swayamvar and thus HE was inferior to ARJUN.

Neutral Jury Nilambar upholds the view of Chiraan. Observers Sonu and Nilesh also feel the arguments by Surya are insufficient to Prove Karna succeeded in Swayamvar.

Krishnarpana

Lord Krishna Praises Karna

By Sri Chiraan 2009/05/18

One of the strongest points that followers of Karna [as invincible] have is the words of Krishna praising Karna, on the eve of death of Ghatotkach. Krishna say’s:

• Karna is given to austerities
• Karna is one abiding by Bramhins and Devatas
• Karna is not given to falsehood
• [He says to Parshuram, I am anatha, all orphans and other creatures as well are children of GOD, you are GOD and YOU are Bramhin, thus I said I am Bramhin]

Karna cannot be slayed by INDRA, YAMA, VARUNA

Karna, cannot be vanquished with even Sudarshan Chakra 

All this because He has Kavach Kundal.

What was so great about Kavach Kundal. It was an armour given as boon to KARNA by SURYA.

Can a boon by Surya make Karna invincible even to Devatas and Narayana? let us analyse:

• Nivat kavach rakshas too had boon of kavach, nothing could pierce the kavach. Kavach could not be cut or destroyed by Devatas. This was the boon given to nivat kavach by BRAMHA.
• Indra gives his vajrayudh and Kirit [hence ARJUN is called KIRITI] to ARJUN and sends him to fight with nivat kavach. Arjun destroys the Kavach of nivath kavach and makes Indra happy. [Boon is overtaken].
• Jarasandha had boon of Shiva, never to die and be immortal, but Bheema kills him [boon is surpassed].
• Jayadrath had boon that he would be invincible to all Pandavs, but as Pashupat astra was given to Arjun, Shiva made it clear that except Arjun he would be invincible over Pandavs but only for a day. Bheema earlier had overtaken Shiva boon, but here HE let the boon happen, for Abhimanyu had to die. [Boon honoured].
• Kaalyavan had a boon by Shiva that He would kill Krishna, but contrarily he died at the sight of MUCHIKUNDA. [Boon overtaken][Boon to Muchikunda honoured].
• Samshaptakas had boon from Shiva [not to lose in a battle] but lose terribly to Arjun.      [Boon overtaken].
• Kritavarma had a boon from Krishna, that he would be Invincible on a chosen day. [Boon honoured ].
• Satyaki had a boon from Krishna, that he would be invincible for a day. [Boon honoured when he defeats all the kauravas].
• Bhagadatta had a vaishnav astra from VARAHA Vishnu. [Boon honoured, as no Pandav ventured as long as he had the astra, when Krishna took on himself, he was killed by PAndav]. [Boon nullified].
• Shrutdhanva had a mace which would make him invincible but would hit him back if he used it on unarmed, it fell on Krishna and his head blew up . [ boon nullified ]

So at times boons were honoured and at times boons were dishonoured to show that KRISHNA is the master of the UNIVERSE, and not the bestower of these boons. Thus he indiscriminately, randomly, honoured or dishonoured at his will. The fact that boons were dishonoured shows mere boons does not make one INVINCIBLE.

Krishna’s Sudarshan has never come back without destroying the enemy when used. So karna cannot be immune to it, as even greater Rakshasas having boons of invincibility are known to have succumbed to SUDARSHAN CHAKRA. Bhagavat is testimony to it. Entire puranas sing glory of VISHNU with CHAKRA having never failed.  Krishna has shrouded SUN himself with the Chakra [Jayadrath killing], when SUN himself was overpowered, where his boons stand.

KARNA is mere a mortal and pitiable mortal at that.

With KAVACH Kundal on he was vanquished by many. There is a incident in the Mahabharata where, Bheema hits the Kavach during RAJASUYA digvijay, it hurts Karna to the point of death, just to honour Parshuram’s words and Surya’s boon, he does not break it.

Karna accepts the sovereignty of YUDHISTHIR and pays taxes. Rajsuya yagya is completed .[without Karna accepting defeat, this Yagnya would not have deemed complete as Raajsuya is meant for rulership of all the world, Karna was part of world.

No great warrior gives /accepts superiority till his life / death, only when HE has love of LIFE, he accepts defeat. Karna feared losing LIFE despite KAVACH KUNDAL. This is also reflected in GANDHARVA episode, KARNA was captivated, a warrior will give life rather than get captivated. One gets captivated when he is helpless and fears life. Otherwise war takes place unto death.

So kavach and Kundal were not something that could save Karna’s LIFE. Sudarshan is a highest weapon, its use would definitely KILL KARNA, but as Lord VOWED not to use weapons, using SUDARSHAN was unwarranted. ALSO as PArshuram Lord has promised protection to KARNA as long as he is without jealousy. BUT KARNA could never get rid of JEALOUSY towards ARJUN to the point he could not abide by LORD KRISHNA and KUNTI and SURYA [the giver of KAVACH].

It was Karna’s inability to overcome SHADVAIRI [ KAAM KRODHA LOBHA MADA MOHA MATSARYA] that made him lose despite all the boons. All the good fortunes became useless:

• His repentance of not having Drona’s tutorship was well compensated by PARSHURAM [Drona ‘s guru] that made him equal to Drona himself [is it not good fortune].
• He was made KING of ANGA even before YUDHISTHIRA could acquire a KINGDOM [is it not good fortune].
• His skills were acknowledged and was praised everywhere [is it not good fortune].
• He acquired Another half of ANGA rajya from JARASANDHA [is it not good fortune].
• EVEN when Pandavs were languishing in forests, HE always had a Kingdom of his own and an emperor as a friend [is it not good fortune].
• He had the protection of highest Kind [ KAVACH and KUNDAL] [is it not good fortune].
• His father SURYA always spoke to him in the times of distress [is it not good fortune].
• He was recognised by the whole world as a potential rival to ARJUN by whole world [ Takshak’s son chose him to take revenge] [is it not good fortune]. [Getting support of enemies enemy].
• He was even offered a chance to Rule over his Rival ARJUN by KRISHNA [is it not a good fortune].
• Except for the sanskara of SUTA, all his life he led a life akin to a glorified  KSHATRIYA.[is it not a good fortune].

He turned a blind eye to all these fortunes and out of ego, pride and jealousy, sided with the evil and lost all the fortune and perished. KAvach KUndal were for his safety till he grew into an adult, boons are meant for doing good in this world, when one misuses them they are taken back. INDRA took back the KAVACH because Karna had to be killed for his misdeeds. Boon of SURYA would be falsified. GOD CHOSE TO HONOUR SUN . [ALSO IT SAVED KARNA FROM UTTER DISGRACE again good fortune].

MORAL : Never succumb to shadvairi [KAAM KRODHA LOBHA MADA MOHA MATSARYA], all your good fortunes notwithstanding you shall perish unaided by LORD KRISHNA .

Krishnarpana