By Sri Chiraan 2009/07/06
Beauty of a person is judged by 32 features. Such 32
Features present indicates a perfect man / woman. These features are:
- Chest, forehead, shoulders must be broad - 3
- Navel, and Satva must be deep [Gambhir] - 2
- Breasts, stomach, knees, nose, face, hips
must be well developed - 6
- Penis, back, neck, thighs should be small - 4
- Eye
edges, palms, foot, nails, tongue, lips, palette should be red in colour – 7
- Teeth, nails, hair, skin, pores should be subtle [not coarse] - 5
- Mouth, eyes, ears, nose and arms should be large - 5
- Additionally
three lines should be visible at forehead, neck and stomach
Only Hanuman has all the Lakshanas. Shiva has 28 Lakshanas, and others have lesser and lesser. Devatas have 15 and above, rishis have eight
best lakshan, and beautiful humans have 4 or 5 good lakshanas. Demons have all
distorted lakshan. Kali has all 32 durlakshanas only.
Those who have more than 20 lakshanas their words on Vedas
can be accepted.
More the lakshanas more the happiness. More will be devotion towards Vishnu. For women beauty is the only indicator for good qualities. More beautiful a women more devoted will be she towards God.
Abenefic in Lagna or a benefic aspecting Lagna makes one
beautiful
Krishnarpana
Pranav said: July 29, 2010 at 19:27
ReplyDeleteSince aging of Vijayendraru and vadiraja has been mentioned , why cant we think as below:
Sumadhwa vijaya is not a pramaana grantha like puraana or veda. The author of sumadhva vijaya might have added his own assumptions and exaggerations.
In Vaamana avatar , God does nt age but in vedavyas avatar he looks like a old man.
Both Vijayendraru and vadirajaru might have done the same.
MBTN written by Acharya madhwa doesnt have any “pramaana”. It is his own view and there is no veda or itihaasa which supports it. eg: Bahlika had avesha of Vayu. This is mentioned in MBTN but cannot be found in any ved or puraan.
As I have already mentioned, rujutwa of Raajaru is proved from verses of vyoma samhita , padma puraan etc
Which bloody UM pontiff is mentioned in scriptures? Not even a single.
A shirur pontiff took possession of idols by hook or crook when vibhudendraru was in north india.
Bloody theif … rascal. This is none other than the great yati of UM called “Vidyanidhi teertha”
UM is a bullshit and shud keep it’s mouth shut when names of yatis like Raajaru , rayaru and vijayendraru are being taken.
Chiraan said: July 30, 2010 at 17:50
ReplyDeleteWhere is the understanding that vedvyasa looks old ?
every word of MBTN is backed by purana and vedas , aveshas are written in puraana . Now definitely questioning on one hand mBTN or madhvacharya and justifying vadirayaru on other hand does not go well as vada because if moola does not exist the branch named vadirajaru cannot exist as well .
vada should have pramana , till now pramanas have not flown except expletives i have not seen any strong pramana , just saying padma contains or vyoma contains is not enough . put it on the forum and prove your statement rather than wasting your energies on UM
Pranav said: September 25, 2009 at 10:13
ReplyDeleteSir,
I have gone through all the so called “Madhwa works” . Before terming me as an ignorant and faulty person , I request u to use more polite words to users of this forum rather than straight away labelling them as “ignorant” person. Debate can never be healthy if personal remarks are made.Any person making personal remarks during a debate is nothing but morally sick.
If each and every praise in puranas and vedas is taken to be a praise of madhwacharya, then where r other rujus. Madhwacharya is not the only shisya of Vyasa deva. As mentioned in the first sloka, brahma says latvaya will come to his position -that means Latvaya will come to vayu padavi and then come to brahma position. As i have already said , it’s a matter of seniority and not tht of caliber. In the first sloka , what brahma devaru actually means to say is latavya will come to vayu padavi and then will become brahma. This has been cleared by both sondha matha and rayara matha. Also ruju sankhya is 100 and not 99. People are broad minded enough when it comes to Madhwacharya and can comprehend beyond limits to extoll his greatness , but they find it hard to comprehend and digest other’s greatness. As per sumadhwavijaya , madhwacharya did upavaasa and mounavrata for a mandala period of time and went to badari to meet vyasa deva. But in case of vaadirajaru , when he started dhyana when he was in Gaya during his teerth yaatra, sri vedavyasa gave his saakshaat darshan and he himself took him to badari.
Pranav said: September 25, 2009 at 10:13
ReplyDeleteShishya could have attained more knowledge than his guru , but still he will and he has to bow to his guru. Did hanuman not bow to his guru surya and krishna to his guru saandeepa maharshi. Ok .. u can argue tht these two are exceptional personalities. Let us take another case. Yaagnavalkya , got his knowledge from Soorya bhagawan and yavakrita got his gyaan from Indra. Yaagnavalkya flourished and is creator of many great works while
Yavakreeta molested the daughter in law of raibhya rishi and perished though he had knowledge of vedas.
I would like to put forth a question from a layman’s perspective:
Indra molested ahalya and eloped with chitrasena , the wife of kubera.
He attached the garbha of diti and wanted to kill wives of hiranyakashyapa and vajraanga daityas. He has done many other such henious sins and still he holds a position higher than other gods. Brihaspati had illicit relation with mamata, who was his brother uthathya’s wife. After commiting such a henious sin, he is still better and holds position of a shreshta brahmana.
Is it ok tht they can do anything as they are in high position?
If taratamya among gurus is true , then why did students of vadiraja did not approach shree vijayeendra or vice versa as both were contemporaries. As per ur theory both cannot be equals. Remember , I said Guru – sthana is same , but not Guru. When we know the value of our mother, we also respect our friend’s mother or any one else’s mother for tht matter.Similarly sishyaas of sri vyasa teertharu would have gone to raghunatha teertharu and vice versa, as both were contemporaries. There have been so many contemporaries. So as per taratamya, they should have left their guru and gone to a higher guru.
Pranav said: September 25, 2009 at 10:13
ReplyDeleteAlso , regarding madhwacharya u take tantra saara sangraha to support tht there are specific ways to worship each god.
The very question is about authenticity of his work. As a part of debate u should take vedas or puraanas into consideration to prove his work to be authentic. Like, I have and will not use swapna vrindaavanaakhyana to prove rujutva of Rajaru. I have quoted other authentic sourses.
In padma puran , the last chapter of shrusti khanda which contains the story of king bhadreshwara , clearly says that Surya is more superior to Indra.
Please go through it once and get back to me. U can ask ur fellow madhwa scholars about the same.
Now can u still support taratamya , as it is against padma purana which is a satvic one. In moola ramayana u find aditya hridayam which is known to all of us. Here Surya is praised to be the antartyaami of indra, varuna,ashwini,vayu and all other gods. Is aditya hrudayam wrong?
U have said tht there are indra namaskaarams and argya is given to kama and others. This is as per ur tantra saara sangraha. I would like to have authentication from a reliable source like rigveda etc.
Ok , Let me ask one basic thing. As per madhwa siddhanta, except narayana and laksmi all are jeevas and Shri madhwacharya is supposed to be bhaavi brahma. That means after saadhana he is going to further and getting a promotion sort of thing. This clearly says that he is bit lower to brahma. Then how is vayu called jeevottama , as we have brahma who is superior to him ?
My dear chiraan , even I have studied madhwa sidhanta works. All these questions are basic and from a layman’s perspective. Me knowing answers to these questions or not knowing them does nt matter. My interest is to hear what u have to say abt these things. If we both believe in tanta saara sangraha , then u can quote it to rectify my doubts.
But we would like to know whether it’s totally authentic or not. So try to quote from a higher source like vedas. U can take mandala 7 of rigveda as a reference as it has
If u still feel that we are not eligible to put our doubts or not donot have scholastic skills matching u , then u ask ask us to amke an end.
The point that I still stick to is — there are lapses the way taratamya is put and it should nt be taken literally and Guru – sthana is pavitra and shreshta irrespective of who the guru is and we should respect and pray to all gurus keeping aside taratamya.
As far as Rujutva of Raajaru is concerned , it is left to ur intellect.
Gurubhyonnamaha
Pranav said: September 25, 2009 at 10:13
ReplyDeleteAlso , regarding madhwacharya u take tantra saara sangraha to support tht there are specific ways to worship each god.
The very question is about authenticity of his work. As a part of debate u should take vedas or puraanas into consideration to prove his work to be authentic. Like, I have and will not use swapna vrindaavanaakhyana to prove rujutva of Rajaru. I have quoted other authentic sourses.
In padma puran , the last chapter of shrusti khanda which contains the story of king bhadreshwara , clearly says that Surya is more superior to Indra.
Please go through it once and get back to me. U can ask ur fellow madhwa scholars about the same.
Now can u still support taratamya , as it is against padma purana which is a satvic one. In moola ramayana u find aditya hridayam which is known to all of us. Here Surya is praised to be the antartyaami of indra, varuna,ashwini,vayu and all other gods. Is aditya hrudayam wrong?
U have said tht there are indra namaskaarams and argya is given to kama and others. This is as per ur tantra saara sangraha. I would like to have authentication from a reliable source like rigveda etc.
Ok , Let me ask one basic thing. As per madhwa siddhanta, except narayana and laksmi all are jeevas and Shri madhwacharya is supposed to be bhaavi brahma. That means after saadhana he is going to further and getting a promotion sort of thing. This clearly says that he is bit lower to brahma. Then how is vayu called jeevottama , as we have brahma who is superior to him ?
My dear chiraan , even I have studied madhwa sidhanta works. All these questions are basic and from a layman’s perspective. Me knowing answers to these questions or not knowing them does nt matter. My interest is to hear what u have to say abt these things. If we both believe in tanta saara sangraha , then u can quote it to rectify my doubts.
But we would like to know whether it’s totally authentic or not. So try to quote from a higher source like vedas. U can take mandala 7 of rigveda as a reference as it has
If u still feel that we are not eligible to put our doubts or not donot have scholastic skills matching u , then u ask ask us to amke an end.
The point that I still stick to is — there are lapses the way taratamya is put and it should nt be taken literally and Guru – sthana is pavitra and shreshta irrespective of who the guru is and we should respect and pray to all gurus keeping aside taratamya.
As far as Rujutva of Raajaru is concerned , it is left to ur intellect.
Gurubhyonnamaha
Chiraan said: October 13, 2009 at 03:29
ReplyDeleteShri Pranavs’ most questions have been answered elsewhere , yet some answered ones I would elaborate .
Firstly all the proofs given are regarding Latavya and latavya as ruju we have no doubt . But where is it explicitly written that Latavya will be yati in Kaliyuga ?
quote”
Shishya could have attained more knowledge than his guru , but still he will and he has to bow to his guru. Did hanuman not bow to his guru surya and krishna to his guru saandeepa maharshi. Ok .. u can argue tht these two are exceptional personalities. Let us take another case. Yaagnavalkya , got his knowledge from Soorya bhagawan and yavakrita got his gyaan from Indra”
Ideally shishya cannot attain more knowledge than guru , as there is no parampara to teach everything that you know to the student . student is taught according to his capacity [yogyata] . As gurus ‘ yogyata is more than shishya ” he is always taught less . Krishna Draupadi samvaada wrt Arjun’s frequent travels is testimony to it .
In usual cases it is early vidyaguru who is superceded . IN this case MANU vachan is , guru bhavana should be there only till vidyagrahan is there thereafter it is not compulsory .[ guru bhavana]
Usual bow pranaam etc as a bramhin guru is always carried out .[ Even achild of eighyt years when invited to house for bhojana is given namaskaara ]
But there is no guru bhavana .
Tartamya is so strong that even when prayng to Lord [ dev pooja] if swauttama comes it is imperative to leave pooja and attend to him [ MANU]
SHiva has cursed Indra for not responding to him while Indra was in DEV pooja .
So tartamya exists .
So in order to GIve Vadirajaru an equal space along with Madhvacharya if every tartamya is compromised . It is debatable .
Chiraan said: October 13, 2009 at 03:31
ReplyDeleteThere is Upanishad which says Prahalad settles superiority between Virochan and Angiras son by saying Angiras is higher to him ad hence his son is also higher to Virochan . So also Indra’s disciple is greater than Surya’s disciple.
Pranav said: September 24, 2009 at 18:30
ReplyDeleteHello Sir,
I had put those points regarding yatis just to point tht other yatis are being ridiculed. Anyway , I wanted to show proof for rujutva of Vaadirajaru and have done that.After reading my post if at all there is anyone in this forum who still have doubts on Rajaru’s rujutva then I can put the proof in a better and clear manner.
Yatis have gurusthana and should be prayed first prior to praying gods.One should learn that there is no bheda in guru-sthana. One guru should not be compared with other gurus. It is like comparing our parents wid others parents. Even Madhwacharya will not approve and accept the prayer if a person thinks tht only he is best and others are inferior to him.mata pita nd guru occupy first place.Everyone should first pray to their guru and then to devataas.I think everyone will agree to this. If someone takes Rayaru or rajaru as their gurus then they should first worship them and then move to others. I have read in kanakadasara charitre that he did nt believe in taratamya. The concept of taratamya has been taken in a wrong way and it has made many madhwas so narrow minded that they have started ridiculing other saints and gods. When i was in malkhed , a pandit over there was ridiculing vaadirajaru and was enjoying tht. He was misguiding a person who was there to perform seva to jayateertharu. Even , i am from uttaradi mutt but tht has nt made me think tht only our mutt is superior .
Dont u feel that the way we use lines like ” surya is much inferior to swayambhu manu or indra ” reflects arrogance .
Sir, all of us need to have vinaya and should respect and pray to our ishta devatas irrespective of their taratamya. Dont u feel that a person who does surya namaskaar and is devoted to surya will find it hard to concentrate on his prayer if he is taught tht surya is inferior to many others. We can never pray to other gods peacefully and whole heartedly if we take taratamya literally. It is mentioned in many works tht vishnu teertha , brother of shri acharya was an ardent devotee of Subramanya. He did penance on subramanya betta and disappered from there. Why did he not choose Indra or brihaspati who are more superior to Subramanya.
How many of our madhwa brothers pray to Surya , chandra, or indra etc.
If Surya is really inferior to indra or kama then why dont we do indra namaskaarams or offer argya to kamadeva. What i want to say is ,though one comes to know taratamya , it should nt change his mindset towards his ishta devatha. Do u really think chandra can be put in same kasha of tht of surya , from who he derives energy? We all pray to ganapati … but why not kama who is claimed to be more powerful and higher?
Can I have a reason for all these ?
Manoshuddi and ekachitta towards ishta devata is more necessary . Atleast I feel so ….. I repeat again tht , if someone finds my points not logical or against madhwa sidhanta , then I will surely stop the discussion.
Thanks for the forum provided.
Gurudevaya namaha
chiraan said: September 25, 2009 at 00:13
ReplyDeletedear sir , This Q/A of yours is totally debatable and faulty .
Let me address your concerns elaborately , The proof that is given in your link is from a document published 200 years ago . It elaborates the purana vachana regarding Latavya [ there are 99 rujus and every one finds mention in shruti and purana ] the word Vadiraja wherever used in the link is exclusively used for Madhvacharya and it is being mentioned in the article itself .
In one stanza exclusively it is mentioned that every ruju is known by the name Vadiraja .
the very first line from padma purana mentions about Madhvacharya only as vyasa shishya and ruju yati: who had defeated many scholars [ vadiraja]
in one of the proofs even Vishnuteertha padnabhteertha is also refered to as ruju yatis [ whereas it is known they are shesha amshas ] so yati is given an adjective of ruju for being perfect in disvipline and not rujutva in that stanza .
All gurus are not given same sthana , kindly refer to tantra sara about Madhvacharya elaborating how a guru can be left if a better guru is found . and no permission is required .
ishta devata is not prayed first . No ishta devta is prayed independently . if someone finds hard to conecentrate on anything else other than surya only invites hell . as surya is not sarvottama . refer to tantra sara again on how to worship other dieties [other than Vishnu ] they have to be prayed in vishnu and vayu golaka . ie every ishta devta is prayed in three golakas ,. if this technique is not known then the pooja [ concentrating meditation as you mention ] is asura pooja .
there are INDRA namaskaras also and Kama is also given arghya . every Diety has a mudra and asana to be easily made vashya .
your lack of knowledge and complete ignorance towards tartamya has led to such faulty understandings .
tartamya is first stepping stone and most important achivement towards moksha .
There is nothing wrong in making amends a s Surya is inferior to others as It is not Surya who gives the phala but Vishnu as present in Surya who gives phala . Even if Surya is not happy Vishnu as antargata will definitely give phala . so there is nothing wrong in it . if one finds diffciult then he must practise and do the meditation in right manner .
There is always tartamya in guru sthana also . it starts with Laxmi Narayana ,Bramha Vayu sarswati bharati as adi guru moola gurur dev guru param guru swa guru [ atma guru] vidya guru etc . these have to be prayed in this sequence only .
Madhvas have very pretty laid out methodology when followed without doubt would definitely ascertain para sukha any deviation due to vipareet a gyana will lead to hell.
Chiraan said: September 25, 2009 at 00:19
ReplyDeleteThe above points are only to bring out clairvoyance and to take the concepts a little further , it is not meant to demean anyone , inputs and further discussions are welcome as it increases our knowledge and understanding . and is also beneficial to reaers to take their sadhna a step further . so please feel free to contribute and debate and rectify .
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Chiraan S wrote:
> dear sir , > This Q/A of yours is totally debatable and faulty . > > Let me address your concerns elaborately , > The proof that is given in your link is from a document published 200 years > ago . It elaborates the purana vachana regarding Latavya [ there are 99 > rujus and every one finds mention in shruti and purana ] the word Vadiraja > wherever used in the link is exclusively used for Madhvacharya and it is > being mentioned in the article itself . > > In one stanza exclusively it is mentioned that every ruju is known by the > name Vadiraja . > > the very first line from padma purana mentions about Madhvacharya only as > vyasa shishya and ruju yati: who had defeated many scholars [ vadiraja] > > in one of the proofs even Vishnuteertha padnabhteertha is also refered to > as ruju yatis [ whereas it is known they are shesha amshas ] so yati is > given an adjective of ruju for being perfect in disvipline and not rujutva > in that stanza . > > > All gurus are not given same sthana , kindly refer to tantra sara about > Madhvacharya elaborating how a guru can be left if a better guru is found . > and no permission is required . > > ishta devata is not prayed first . No ishta devta is prayed independently . > if someone finds hard to conecentrate on anything else other than surya only > invites hell . > as surya is not sarvottama . > refer to tantra sara again on how to worship other dieties [other than > Vishnu ] they have to be prayed in vishnu and vayu golaka . ie every ishta > devta is prayed in three golakas ,. if this technique is not known then the > pooja [ concentrating meditation as you mention ] is asura pooja . > > there are INDRA namaskaras also and Kama is also given arghya . > every Diety has a mudra and asana to be easily made vashya . > > your lack of knowledge and complete ignorance towards tartamya has led to > such faulty understandings . > > tartamya is first stepping stone and most important achivement towards > moksha . > > There is nothing wrong in making amends a s Surya is inferior to others as > It is not Surya who gives the phala but Vishnu as present in Surya who gives > phala . Even if Surya is not happy Vishnu as antargata will definitely give > phala . so there is nothing wrong in it . if one finds diffciult then he > must practise and do the meditation in right manner . > > There is always tartamya in guru sthana also . it starts with Laxmi > Narayana ,Bramha Vayu > sarswati bharati as adi guru moola gurur dev guru param guru swa guru [ > atma guru] > vidya guru etc . these have to be prayed in this sequence only . > > Madhvas have very pretty laid out methodology when followed without doubt > would definitely ascertain para sukha any deviation due to vipareet a gyana > will lead to hell. > > >
Pranav Raju said: September 22, 2009 at 16:42
ReplyDeleteNamaskaaram everyone.
I here by have some points for it. Please allow me to take part in this discussion.
The rujutva of Shree Vaadirajaru is mentioned in padma purana and other authentic works like rig veda.
All the proof for rujutva of Shree Vaadiraja teertha is given in http://www.rujuvadiraja.com
I request all members and Madhwas to go through it.
Authentic and correct references have been made from padma purana( this is a satvic purana, so is very much acceptable as proof) and other works.
Shri Vishnu used to daily come personally in the form of Hayagreeva and accepted naivedya or Raajaru. Is there any saint who used to personally see the physical form of lord daily or when ever he wanted ?
In Rukmineesha vijaya , Rajaru tells the king of pune that there is a great work on marriage of rukmini and krishna and says it will take around 19 days to get it from Udupi. He reveals that he has authored it in these 19 days , later when it gets selected as the best sanskrit work.
I request everyone to go through Vaadiraja vijaya with good amount of interest and attention.
Has Shree vaadiraja not created dashaavataara stuti( to which lord hayavadana used to dance in ashwa dhati taala in the form of a horse) ,
rameaha kavacha, narahari stuti , yukti mallika etc spontaneously.
Even shankaracharya and rama krishna param hamsa have performed miracles. Performing miracles or displaying spiritual powers is not the real measure of one’s calibre or strength.
Raajaru accepted all his devotees and sharanaarthis rogaas but the jwara devatha said she did nt have the power to even come near him.Raajaru allowed her to enter his body and affect him instead of his devotees just to abide by the rule of karma. Even ganga, after washing sins of people who took bath in her gets polluted. she inturn visits some saints to cleanse herself. This is mentioned in Naarad puraan. U can eradicate others karma only by god’s will and u urself being ready to undergo others karmic effects.
Rajaru did nt want to use his powers against law of karma. Do u think some one like Shree Raajaru will really have disease or hunger?
If Swapna vrundaavanaakhyana is an outcome of a devotee’s hallucination or esctasy , then cant Vaayu stuti be the same. What is the proof that Trivikrama pandita has really seen three avataars of Madhwa. It can be an outcome of his esctasy?
In padma puraana it is clearly mentioned that all 100 rujus have same amount of knowledge of Shree Hari.The only thing that matters is seniority and nothing else.
The reason why Raajaru declines someones gift and why he accepts it from others is clearly mentioned in Vaadiraja Vijaya.
Many so called Madhwas doubt if Brahmanya teertharu is really an incarnation of Surya. Is there a proof that Jayateerharu is an incarnation of arjuna or Indra ?
My 67 year old body has travelled long and wide and visited many vrindaavanams.Everywhere I have found our Madhwas rediculing our own gurus. The concept of Taratamya has gone too much in deep to our hearts that we can never digest anything other than Hari and Vaayu. This is really an unhealthy situation.
I apologise ,if someone is hurt in any way. I request the readers to take my lines in a constructive way. As an oldman, I can only discuss and have no energy to argue. If someone thinks my points are against the policy of this forum , then I wont make any further posts.
Shree Gurubhyonnamaha
Chiraan said: September 24, 2009 at 10:56
ReplyDeletedear sir , Your inputs are welcome , there is no argument here as such , as our siddhanta points out , a thoruouh understanding of tartamya is must to attain mokshasiddhi , now as far as other saints are concerned , never an attempt is made to place them in the order of diety . all the yatis are prayed after devata pooja . Madhvaharya is exception as he is vayu [ vayu is avatara is also similar to moolrupa . others are not ] so gopaladasaru is not prayed at par as ganapaty and before karmaj devtas . gopaldasaru ardently prayed rayaru at mantralayam , but in tartamya he may be ahead . but in avatara not so .
so placing yatis in tartamya is not parampara except Moolrupa vayu and Madhvacharya , but as regards to Vadiraja this parampara seems to be compromised .
Hrishikesh said: July 24, 2009 at 22:00
ReplyDeleteNamaskarams to all the learned people here, my two cents worth is as follows. I always thought of Shri Vadiraaja as Bhavi Sameera
1) He is the Brahmin who brought the message from Shri Rukmini ( Shri Laxmi Devi ) to Shri Krishna ( Shri Narayana ) and took the Lords message back. ( I am assuming there is no debate on this issue )
Is’nt this similar in some way to Mukhya Prana bring Sri Ram’s Mudrika to Sri Sita Murti and taking chudamani back to Shri Ram
2) If there is a debate on point 1. then which devate is the brahmin who acts as an messenger between Shri Krishna and Shri Rukmini. ( Undoubtedly there has to a vishesha sannidhana of Vayu devaru in the Brahmin )
3) Please present the Shri Vijay Dasaru Suladhi on Shri Vadiraajaru. It would bless all of us 🙂
4) As far as Shringara Rasa of Rukminisha Vijaya goes,
In the war that ensues between Shri Krishna’s army and Jarasandha’s army, Shri Krishna cuts the lips, hands, eyes and specific parts of the warriors in Jarasandha’s army, the specific parts signify those who lusty desires relating to those parts when they saw Rukmini. For example those who wanted to kiss got their lips cut, so on and so forth.
I am not sure how to tie this part in with the Shringara Rasa part, but I feel there is a connection. So I’m just putting it out there. Shri Krisharpana
BharatiRamanaMukhyaPranantargataShriKrishnarpanamastu,
Hrishikesh.S.S.
Chiraan said: July 28, 2009 at 01:23
ReplyDeleteAs a al-pagnya I acnnot state whether Vadirajaru is Bhavi sameer or not !
But suppressing human sanshaya is not madhva way of resolving issues. Learned should give more and more info to concretise the thought.
Bramhin certainly had the Vayu avesha there cannot be any doubt .
suladi is awaited.
Shringar rasa is infact a compliment cannot be a point of debate because moksha parva by any saint [ even sunmadhvavijaya ] is also full of shringara rasa .
Panchavrundavan is according to me a digbandhana . Ebecause even if Vadiraja is Bhavi sameera , pancha vyuhaatmaka rupa of prana apana vyana udana samana cannot come to him as latavya it has to come only when he attains sameeratva. [ unless there is apprenticeship given ad hoc even during latavya ] this has to have shruti pramana or suladi backing it. lerarned must show them.
Dhananjay said: July 8, 2009 at 12:59
ReplyDeleteNamaskar Shri Chiraan, its just a healthy debate and no offence meant.
People have made a controversy regardinig the Rujutva thats it. But then to clarify is a necessity
Sri Swapna Vrundavana Aakhyana is a must read for all the Jignasu, who want to understand about Bhave Sameera Sri Vadirajara rujutva, yes i do know there are quiet a few people who have doubts about the same Aakhayana and question its authenticity, well i can only say GOD save them.
In the Aakhyana Sri Vadiraja swamy has told all about his rujutva.Kindly go through it. Kindly also let me know your opnion of Sri Aakhyana.
As already told Shri Vijaya Dasaru in his Suladi’s has very clearly prayed to Sri Vadirajaru as a Bhavee Sameera and a ruju. One just has to be open minded and look at the available dasa sahitya to understand.
Earlier i have mentioned about the pratyaksha pramana, like the pancha Vrundavan, which explains about rujutva, if that is not a pramana, then what is it? what is the reason for the presence of the pancha vrundavana?? which is not found any where else??
Regarding the comment on Rukminisha Vijaya, Kindly read the Commentary of Shri Narayanacharya a Contemparory and disciple of Shri Vadiraja Swamy, Bhakti Rasa Predominates rather than shringara rasa and other sentiments are subordinate. One has to take into consideration the whole of the Maha kaavya into context and not to take up distorted meaning by taking into account only certain portions of the maha kaavya and it should not be piece meal, that should be looked at.
Kindly go through the history of Shri Jambukhandi Vadirajacharya a soldier of rujutva and it will be clear the kind of anugraha he had obtained by worshiping shri vadiraja as a Ruju and nothing else. I very much agree with you that ours is a system based on taratamya and one should be clear about before going about our Saadhana, very true and we end up accumulating sin if it is otherwise, very very true.
But kindly let me know your opinion regarding, what if Vadiraja is a Ruju and we are just ignoring that aspect, by disregarding the opinion of great saints and dasa’s and just keep asking for pramana? what kind of sin we would be accumulating?
Bhavee Sameera Sri Vadiraja Antargata, Laxmi Venkateshai Namaha
Shri Krishnarpanamastu
Chiraan said: July 8, 2009 at 14:34
ReplyDeleteNamaskaar Shri dhanajay , Kindly take my words as a healthy debate only ,People in my circle vehemently is opposed to the idea of rujutva. I have myself tried many times spending days at Sonde decided to give rujutva dhyana but was disuaded . although I would not acredit highest importance to my personal opinion . I after performing seva for several days with Dhyana of adiraja s ruju m, i suffered vrat bhanga. I continued with normal sadhan as yati and the i completed again second time . This may also be taken as preconcieved bias. I wont deny.
But let me analyze some pramana put by you [ only for argument sake][ I am ardent devotee of Vadiraaj] 1. Pancha vrundava were built after sajeeva samadhi of Vadiraaj [ correct me If i am wrong] 2. Vrundavan akhya is swapna to a devotee in ecsatasy . why this devotee cannot be taken as overenthusiastic. 3. Panchavrundavana may aslo be taken as Vrundavana for other Dev rahasya.[ digbandhana] 4. Rujus have no defects , Vadiraja has doen some swahankar khandana in his writings , this shows he was not ruju. There is an incident where he was too feeble after ekadashi on a dwadashi day. 5.In all his writings he has proclaimed extreme bhakti towards Acharya MNadhva as guru and not sama and his he has also expressed inability to comprehend completely what has been written by Madhvacharya. 6.He has taken up mithyapavada [ by punascharana of Vayustuti] and left it for Lord to clear. 7. He has never mentioned about his rujutva. 8 Vijaydasa suladi of bhavee sameer , kindly quote it. 9.In rukmini vijaya , Swamiji declared existence of kavya even before it was written . He did it with slowness of mortal and not ruju. Unlike NMadhva who gave instantaneous spontaneous discourses and writings [ ex vishnusahsranama vyakhyana] . 10. Ruju should be able to absolve all the sins by himself , vadiraaj puts all the wealth given by Muslim ruler into Kaveri 13 times. But accepts local rulers wealth. Not accepting sinned wealth shows fear of sin . [ kinldy take all this as discussion only to enhance mutual knowledge] Vada for tatva sanshaya nivarna does not lead to sin. hence the sahas.
Vinoth said: July 6, 2009 at 18:38
ReplyDeletePlease read the above post as
I didnt understand the words mentioned above.Please clarify
New question
Is it not Lord Guruvayoorapppan at Guruvayoor is beauty Personified.I have read that the idol of Guruvayoorappan is beauty in ints fullest form whereas the lord himself thinks that his devotees are more beautiful than him.So the acharyas there close the curtain every few minuters so that the lord does not leave the abode on account of falling in love with his beautiful devotees
Chiraan said: July 7, 2009 at 04:07
ReplyDeleteGuruvayoor. Vadiraaj swamy has written a book by name Teertha prabhandha . in this He has given account of all the pilgrimage centres of India . Vadiraja as he has lived 120 years and took sanyasa at 8 had toured India many atimes. He used to tour the great Land [ Asetu Himachal paryant] in a clockqwise direction like a pradikshana . He also writes teertha prabandha in this manner explaining importance of even unknown places and places of very less importance and popularty in today’s times and yet those which finds mentions in Puranas and vedas. Thsu his compilation can be taken as ultimate authority on important holy places. As he quotes puranas to explain those places and its presiding diety and pahalshruti ie the merits of visting such places. Unfortunately guruvayoor is not a place mentioned. the reason it is not installed by Devats as mentioned [ GURU and VAYU] but by local saint of the time. Thus the explanation you give for the temple is under Sampradaya and not backed by Puranas.
Vinoth said: July 6, 2009 at 18:27
ReplyDeleteCan u please enlighten us who is Shri Vadiraja Swamy?
What is meant by Bhavee sameera
what is meant by Ruju Devta.
Sorry i dont understand the following word.Please clarify
Chiraan said: July 7, 2009 at 03:46
ReplyDeleteCan u please enlighten us who is Shri Vadiraja Swamy? The following links should give you a fair idea of Shri Vadiraaj Swamy . He is one of the Pontiffs in 14-15th century of Udupi math.One of the most admired and dynamic swamiji who had a a bhoota under his command . this bhhota is known as Bhutaraj and is worshipped in Temple even today all over karnataka. Sode is a very mysterious miraculous place and a must visit for all who seek divine experiences. vadiraaj swamy is one of the foremost thinkers and has applied many a social changes according to the environment that was prevailing . Jains / budhdists and Shaiva sidhdhanta were flourishing in thoses days and Vijayanagar empire was declining , Vadiraajswamiji was responsible for reviving Vedic views /philososphy with unabashed authority and logic . One of my posts on refutation of jain philososphy is his composition . His Yuktimallika is magnum opus and requires extreme intellect to decipher . His Rukmini vijaya is a very romantic poetry and betrays the taste of Sanyasi to give his mastery over Shringara rasa. he was Hayagreeva Upasaka . He lived for full 120 years and entered Samadhi sajeeva.
http://nharipra.wordpress.com/parampare/sri-vadiraja-swamy/
http://nharipra.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/the-birth-of-sri-vadiraja-swamy/
What is meant by Bhavee sameera Sameera means Hanuman . He is considered as next Hanuman in next universe [ creation ] srishti .He is condiered as incarnation of Latavya [ the bramhin who gave the mesage to Rukmini about the arrival of SriKrishna during the swayamvar.]
what is meant by Ruju Devta. According to Vedas only rujus are eligible to occupy the seat of Bramha .Unlike other souls who undergo a transition from agyana to gyani and then Moksha , Rujus are by nature gyanis and never suffer agyana . they are ever ghappy souls but they ahve longest sadhana . They ahve a sadhana of 100 kalpas . ie 100 creations. WHle ordinary souls get their Moksha in single craetion . These get after 100 Bramhas have passed out to Moksha. 98 ruju is latavya , 99 Ruju is Vayu and 100th Ruju is Brahma . Vayu becomes Bramha. Along with these their wfe are also Ruju . Like Vayu Bharati [ Draupadi] Bramha Sarasvati . Bharati becomes Saraswati in next srishti.
Next to rujus are Ugratapas there are 50 ugrataps. 50th Ugratap is Shesha and 49 th is Shiva. Shiva becomes Shesha in next srishti and then attains Moksha. Liewise there are 32 sets iof Souls.
Humans are 31st set .
Dhananjay said: July 6, 2009 at 15:12
ReplyDeleteit should read
Would Vadiraja Swamy have sat at the Same level as that of hamuma, bheema, madhva ? if he were not a ruju ???? Definetly NO
since he is a Ruju he constructed a vrundavana with hanuma, bhim ,madhva and to this day Sama-puja of shri Vayu Devaru and vadirajaru takes place in Shri Mutta
Chiraan said: July 6, 2009 at 17:45
ReplyDeleteNamaskaar Shri Dhananjay , I appreciate the answer you have given , I want to take this discussion forward only for the sake of some knowledge and should not mean to rake any controversy. Madhvaraya has himslef declared that he is ruju , Baliththa sukta is pramana Sitting in between Hanuma madhva bheema can also be taken as protection or perfection towards Sadhana . Or can we also say there might have been a Vayu avesha as well. Why such reasoning cannot be given . Is there any writings where Vadiraajaru has indicated himself that he is equivalent to MAdhva. This is very important because ours is a sidhdhanta well engrossed in aTartamya , if we do not know tartamya and pray unnecessarily according higher status to lower soul it becomes a sin. and doing sahdana of Vadiraja seva with sanshaya ridden mind will also gve hell. so kindly provide strong proof to dispel the sanshaya.
Dhananjay said: July 6, 2009 at 12:20
ReplyDeleteNamaskara
A very good article on Mahapursha Lakshana.
I would like to add on that,Shri Vadiraja Swamy, who is also Bhavee Sameera,and a Mahapurusha, is known to have all the 32 Lakshana’s. Infact he as a young ascetic had given an idol of his, with all the 32 lakshana’s to his mother and even to this day it is worshiped at shri Sode Vadiraj Mutt.
Chiraan said: July 6, 2009 at 14:00
ReplyDeleteNamaskar Shri Dhananjay , Thank you for the Information . Can you please elaborate for benefit of readers , about the pramanas for Vadiraaja Bhavi sameera . and Ruju ganastha . etc. Madhvacharya was known to be young even at the age of 70 ,But vadiraaja swamy showed signs of Aging . Vijayeendra teertha also showed signs of fever attacking them , these should not be technically attributed to Rujus. I may be wrong , so kindly enlighten.