Summary of Debate Arjun vis a vis Karna - 2

By Sri Chiraan 2009/06/13

Debaters
Surya | Chiraan

Observers
Sonu | Renu | Nilesh | Sundara | Neeraj 

Jury Hariprasad

Surya wants to settle the issue of Translation and original Sanskrit before going to new points.

He cites! 1. Ganguly, 2. M N Dutt, 3. R C Dutt, 4. Lal, to say Karna stringed the Bow.

Chiraan says all these authors have different versions, and they do not match with Sanskrit.

Hariprasad shows where Ganguly mentions Radha's son as failed for a shloka, R C Dutt shows it Shishupala failed, and MN Dutt shows it as Jarasandha Failed.
If Surya says they are all authentic, how these are different translation for same shloka.

Surya says: Although he does not know Sanskrit, they are all correct translations, and jury Hariprasad has no ability to read. There is no difference at all. He challenges to show the verses in Sanskrit by Chiraan where Karna failed or made an attempt.

Chiraan shows the verse, Surya says it is fabricated.

Chiraan says it is same Shloka which is mentioned in his site where Ganguly translation resides.

Surya says: The Sanskrit version at site is not acceptable, but Ganguly is acceptable.
If Chiraan can show same Sanskrit for MN Dutt [or if he proves M N Dutt translated from so and so Sanskrit] he would accept.

Hariprasad jury shows, In Sanskrit name Karna failed, and M N Dutt by the side of English he skips the name Karna. This is dubious.

Surya claims its the publishers mistake, he has pulled one Sanskrit version and printed against Dutt translation.

Chiraan says, Dutt mentions that it is Kolkata edition Sanskrit from where he has derived,
Ganguly says he has derived from Neelkantha and resorted to Bengali rendition.

LAL also confirms this in his book. P N Mullick also criticizes the interpolation and incidentally this book is co authored by MN Dutt .
So Ganguly shows error in writing Radha's son. LAl and Dutt agree Ganguly has interpolated. All these have derived from Bhasa. Who has written two plays [not translation] making a hero out of Duryodhan and Karna.

Such plays and its views cannot be accepted as authentic translation.

Surya feigns, he cannot see any such proof provided by the links. Whereas all the observers find them a learning experiences.

Surya says he accepts Vyasa Sanskrit, but is not ready to accept the shloka given by Chiraan, as there is scope for misinterpretation.

Chiraan says same shlokas are available in all sites on the internet, and no other version is available. And hence they have to be Vyasa Sanskrit shlokas, and the word "Karna" is clearly visible, and hence there is no scope for misinterpretation for word "Karna".

Surya says, all the sites showing that shloka are corrupt versions of Sanskrit including his own sacred-texts site [self contradictory].

Sundara exclaims Surya is wrong in his logic.

Renu feels Surya has clearly failed.

Neelesh finds Surya's logic utter nonsense. He admits he was fan of Karna after watching BRC tele-serial, but now after learning Karna debacles he has a change of mind.
He concludes Arjun is the best among the warriors and Karna is least evil among evils.

Neeraj finds it difficult to understand as why Chiraan is quoting Vivekananda, when he is not accepting his views .
Hariprasad unanimously says the logic of Surya is untenable.

Sonu puts forward following questions:

1. After Draupadi swayamvar Karna is defeated by Arjun.

2. Karna was defeated in Gandharva episode. He was captivated [fled by some] abandoning Duryodhan and army. He was rescued by ARJUN.

3. In Viraat episode Arjun single handedly defeats Drona, Bheeshma, and Karna all put together, and Karna flees from the battlefield.

4. When Drona demands gurudakshina to capture Drupada. Duryodhan along with Karna attack Drupad, but is defeated and rooted, and driven away. Arjun wins Drupad.

Why did Karna lose here [he had kavach kundal and boons everything]? Doesn't these loses prove him to inferior.

Surya defends: 

1. Karna was unprepared, he did not expect Bramhin to be serious adversary and hence lost.

2. In Gandharva episode, Karna was surprised [if you are expecting Veerappan and suddenly if you find Israelis what can you do], so because of element of surprise [gandharva was superior] was there he lost. Show similar incident for Arjun and I shall accept.

3. In Viraat parva too he was not aware Arjun was before him, hence he was unprepared.
Unpreparedness makes a warrior vulnerable. It is common and need not hamper Karna's greatness .

Chiraan shows: Arjun similarly fought chitrarathj gandharva when he did not even have a bow and arrow, and surprising attack in night, he hurled torch as astra and defeated gandharva.

Surya how can a gandharva be thought of formidable opponent. You must show some serious incident [Karna lost to Gandharva because gandharva was superior, yet when Arjun wins without weapons, it is just gandharva] [self contradictory].

Hariprasad jury points out,
How come Bramhin [Arjun in disguise] was not taken seriously by Karna, he had just demonstrated a superior skill, which all kshatriyas and Karna himself could not achieve [stringing of bow and hitting of fish]. Having witnessed superior skill Karna should have been more prepared, and Karna led the attack. So did he lead without preparation.

Surya says Karna thought it was roadside Bramhin who could have got a boon to win swayamvar, but will perform miserable in duel. [self contradictory].

Chiraan says if that was true why did all kshatriyas together fought one single Bramhin. Jarasandha was most feared demon in those days, when he failed and Bramhin succeeded that means he was superior to Jarasandha. At least Karna should have estimated that and he was prepared and defeated.

Hariprasad, shows in Viraat, Drona declares its Arjun coming to fight, and then Karna says even if it is Arjun he can vanquish, these words show he was well prepared, and he did see Arjun before him and knew it was Arjun. And he lost pathetically and fled the battlefield.

Surya, says karna was expecting Viraats, but he saw Arjun at the last moment, and there was no time for preparation, hence Karna was unprepared, and hence lost, but that does not show him to be less than Arjun.
Otherwise Why Yudhisthir will say he lost sleep for 13 years thinking about Karna despite these setbacks.
Chiraan Yudhisthir has said same thing about Krishna too, he said how can we vanquish Jarasandha, as Krishna himself could not vanquish him.
Yudhisthir is known to worry unnecessarily, his worry does not make Karna a great. By his worry even Krishna is susceptible to Jarasandha [which is clearly unacceptable].

Hariprasad, jury asks In Drupad war, it is clearly mentioned that Duryodhan and Karna, and all brothers get into competition as to who will first get to Drupad. Here Karna is well prepared. Karna knows the opponents as Drupad and Panchalas. He knows their strength, and he was fully equipped with kavach kundal, and bow VIJAY everything.
Then why did he lose ?

Surya says this was Drona's war, and Karna was not interested in winning it. He was less enthusiastic so he lost. We cannot consider this loss as mark of inferiority. [Self contradictory]. Karna lost even when prepared. And opponent Surya accepts it.

Haripasad, Jury says Surya's remarks defies elementary logic. 
Karna lost to Drupad, Arjun thrice, Gandharva, Bheemasen, Ghatotkach, Satyaki, Abhimanyu. He also failed to string the bow in Draupadi Swayamvar. So with so many failures Karna cannot be declared as supreme warrior.
Arjun is undoubtedly a superior warrior than Karna, as he never lost a battle until Krishna was there on the earth.

Krishnarpana